Berger Bullets

[Richracer1]

Now I know this is blasphemy, but I'm kind of interested in try out Berger's hunting VLD in my 7mmRUM and 300RUM. For the 7RUM, I'm thinking of either the 168gn or 180gn. For the 300RUM, either the 190gn or 210gn. I asked and received load data for their bullets and these two calibers.

Anyone ever try them out or load them? I'm thinking Rem-man25-06 is the most likely to have tried these.

 

[JD338]

Rich,

There are a few fellas here like Remmy that have used the Berger VLD bullets. Another good source of information would be www.longrangehunting.com

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

Oh, if any of you 7mm or 300 RUM owners are interested, PM your e-mail address and I'll send you what Berger sent for load data. You will need MS Excel or something that can open Excel files.

They are working on producing 250gn and 300gn .338 VLD bullets as well.

 

[CAhunter]

Rich My buddy just started to load the 168gr bergers in his 7mm ultra. I know he is having excellent results. He is using retumbo and is loaded off the lands about .100 or so. He is shooting a M700 sendero.

 

[JD338]

Rich.

As an FYI, I seem to recall reading recently that the Berger bullets shoot better further away from the lands as opposed to close or in the lands. I just can't remember where I read that.
CAhunter's friend shooting .100" off the lands would seem to support that too.

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

Yeah the said the COL is, as we all know, dependant on that specific rifle. He did include a link in regards to optimal seating depth. Here it is:
http://02b0516.netsolhost.com/blog1/?p=43

Anway, I'm still thinking about, just need to find a place to shoot for load developement once I get to Idaho before I go spend some cash for different bullets, plus I am well stocked with Nosler bullets as it is.

 

[1Shot]

From my experience with the Berger bullets and shooting deer, which is limited to only one deer with the 30 cal. 155 gr VLD at 2650 fps from my 30X47 HBR. The deer was 111 yards away. These bullets are really accurate when you get the seating depth right. I stumbled into what Berger is now telling, that they shoot really well waaaaaay off the lands. I loaded the OAL so that it would work through the magazine and it shot one hole at 100 yards with 3 shots. These bullets really open up. The deer I shot through the shoulders broad side had an exit wound the size of a base ball. With those BIG BOOMERS I would not use a Berger unless I was shooting 250 yards or farther. They will most likely evaporate on the hair of a deer inside 200 yards from those BIG BOOMERS.

 

[Powerstroke]

Rich,

I spoke sometime back with Walt himself @ Berger and the 168gr bullets was recommended for my .300RUM.
It's been long enough ago that I don't remember what the results were.... will look them up later, but don't think it was too terrible. I just didn't like the idea of the lighter bullet.... this was my pre-chrony days I believe and can only imagine how fast they were going. Figured if I was going to get more serious about it, the 190's would be the way to go.

 

[Guy Miner]

The last three mule deer I've shot, from 175 - 400 yards, were shot with the 115 grain Berger VLD. It's an interesting bullet.

Detractors claim it's a varmint bullet prone to blowing up. Not true.

Terminal ballistics are very interesting. It penetrates without any expansion for two or three inches UNLIKE ANY OTHER BULLET TESTED BY NOTED GUN WRITER JOHN BARSNESS then expands violently once it's inside the chest cavity. When I read that it was the quickest killing bullet he'd ever used, I got interested.

I'd used 'em before for some match shooting and knew that they could be incredibly accurate. Also that they were affected much less by crosswinds than other bullets. That they proved to be good hunting bullets was a bit of a surprise to me, but I decided to try them. Yup, they work as described by Barsness. A couple of my buddies have used them on elk with excellent results, but I think they're best suited for deer sized game. Leave the deep penetration chores to the Noslers.

They can be a bit picky about seating depth, powder charge and the like. Perhaps you'll get a load that works well right off. Perhaps you'll have to work for that load.

Be careful to get the Bergers labled as "hunting bullets" - the target versions actually have heavier jackets and don't generally expand as well, if at all, according to Berger.

I'm not trying to sell Bergers, but I recognize that they're a pretty good alternative. Particularly for open-country hunters who may have to make a longish range shot on mid-size game.

Berger bullet kills:

Making the 400 yard shot on a mulie doe:

175 yard young mulie buck through the shoulder:

26" 4x4 mulie at 230 - 240 yards:

They also expand well on smaller animals:

A perfect hunting bullet? Of course not! I don't know what is, except that the doggone Nosler Partition comes mighty close. Don't have enough experience with the AccuBond yet, but it might be close to perfect from what I've heard & read.

I highly recommend you read up on what John Barsness has written about the Berger. It's been well tested on game from wild hogs & deer up through red stag and even elk. Some good info out there. PM me and I'll be happy to share what I know. I've been shooting them for years, but just started using them for hunting over the past couple of years.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

By the way - you likely won't find a lot of bullet left from the Bergers you may recover. They get pretty well trashed when they expand. Before and after, 115 Berger VLD:

 

[str8meat]

i recovered a 168 gr. vld outta of an elk shot at 550 yds. it was a frontal shot and recovery was at the back of the lungs. it is a twin to guys picture. elk went straight down and it was a 7mm stw rifle.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Now I know this is blasphemy, but I'm kind of interested in try out Berger's hunting VLD in my 7mmRUM and 300RUM. For the 7RUM, I'm thinking of either the 168gn or 180gn. For the 300RUM, either the 190gn or 210gn. I asked and received load data for their bullets and these two calibers.

Anyone ever try them out or load them? I'm thinking Rem-man25-06 is the most likely to have tried these.

.............Don`t own your two cartridges, but have used the 30 cal 168 VLDs from my 300 WSM Ruger compact to kill 14 hogs so far, and more recently a 190 VLD on a nice bull elk from 328 yards.

All 14 hogs were one shot kills from 80 to 242 yards with mostly DRT effectiveness, with only four of them running no more than 10 yards after being hit. No tracking afterwards was needed.

The elk was hit and then collapsed two to four yards from the point of impact. No tracking needed here either. The VLD penetrated the thick right shoulder bone and continued on doing its thing creating an enormous and destructive wound channel.

The VLDs simply kill a different way than do traditional bullets. Many `ol schooled guys simply have a hard time and are close minded in trying them out, as the VLD way of killing game goes against their grain.

No thick bone penetration with the VLDs????...HA HA HA!!! Better think again!!!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I am on lunch right now, but I will address my issues with the 7mm 168 and 180g vld on deer from my 7 RM. Not really impressed..Wont use either of them again. Never lost an animal with them, but they werent very consistent in terminal ballistic part of things. 168's opened up on coyotes and deer wayyyy to easy IMO, and the 180 didn't open up enough on deer for me. I was running 168's at 2950, and 180's at 2825fps.

I shot the 210g in my 300 RUM at 3000fps. Accurate and fast enough. Only shot 1 deer with that and it was a muley doe about 150-200 yards. DRT, through the shoulder, out the other side with a softball hole, a lot of internal damage, like NBT's or more. Shot a few coyotes with them as well and it was the same all the time, big big exit holes.

Accurate all the way out to 1150, which was as far as I shot them. Could hit my 15" gong pretty consistenty with the 700 sporters in 7 RM and 300 RUM. I rebarreled the 300 to 338 EDGE, and I just bought my 7RM back that I sold about a month ago. Its just to nice and accurate to part with.

If I was you, I'd shoot the 180 in the 7 and the 210 in the 300, just makes sense with the RUMS.

I wouldn't trust a 168g VLD from a RUM unless you were shooting a minimum of about 500 yards. .

These bullets do not hold there weight. Not designed to. Every one I've fired weighed about 20-30% and was a mangled mess.

I just dont really trust them. The only target bullet I really trust is a 300g bullet. It can lose a lot of its weight and still go through a lot of stuff with that kinda SD.

Best advice I can give you is to try them out for yourself and see if they work for YOU.

 

[Desert Fox]

Everyone should treat this bullet just like any swage lead core bullet. It has it's limitation. These bullets are not design for short distance work at blistering speed. But for longrange work, I believe this bullet has no equal.

 

[Richracer1]

Everyone should treat this bullet just like any swage lead core bullet. It has it's limitation. These bullets are not design for short distance work at blistering speed. But for longrange work, I believe this bullet has no equal.

I would have to agree on all of the above.

 

[FOTIS]

Oh, if any of you 7mm or 300 RUM owners are interested, PM your e-mail address and I'll send you what Berger sent for load data. You will need MS Excel or something that can open Excel files.

They are working on producing 250gn and 300gn .338 VLD bullets as well.

Sure why not? I collect all data.

fotis416@yahoo.com

 

[Big Squeeze]

In my conversations with Berger (who`s headquarters are located a few miles from me), a minimum VLD velocity of 1800 fps is needed at impact in order to penetrate the thickest shoulder bones on bull elk, while still continuing on doing its thing, creating wide and devastating wound channels after bone penetration.

I also inquired about higher speed impacts at shorter distances with regards to the 30 cal VLDs I use; the 168 (for hogs) and the 190 (for elk). At a higher impact speed, would the bullet just blow up, fragment and not penetrate as much?

In my particular case anyway according to Berger, higher bullet speed impacts at shorter distances are ok. From my 300 WSM Ruger Frontier shorty tubed compact, my particular hunting muzzle velocities are from 2850 to 2950 for the 168 gr and right at about 2775 to 2820 for the 190 gr. At these MVs, shorter distanced impacts through thick bone or elsewhere won`t effect the VLDs capability of doing what it is supposed to do. This is evidenced by my hog hunting results with shots through the shoulders at less than 100 yards using the 168s. The bullet penetrated the shoulder bone nicely and then went on with its destructive wound channel.

However, in talking with Berger, I did not inquire as to shorter ranged VLD impacts coming from the faster 30s such as the 300 RUM, 300 Wby or the 30-378, as their higher velocities did not pertain to me.

So if you have any questions regarding closer impacts with higher bullet speeds using the VLDs, then give the Berger tech guys a call.

 

[JD338]

I have never used Berger bullets so I can only state my opinion.

Many have had great hunting success with Berger Bullets so they must work but here is my thought. This bullet is designed for long range hunting. This means Magnum calibers generating very high velocity to get the bullet further down range. What if you are set for long range and a 160 class WT deer or 340 class bull elk appears up close?

To me, you spend a lot of money on your equipment, a lot of time preparing for your hunt, saving vacation time, etc and it all comes down to the bullet. This is the reason I have used the PT for so many years. I do give up some MOA to drop and wind drift but I gain predictable on game performance. YMMV

JD338

 

[Big Squeeze]

I have never used Berger bullets so I can only state my opinion.

Many have had great hunting success with Berger Bullets so they must work but here is my thought. This bullet is designed for long range hunting. This means Magnum calibers generating very high velocity to get the bullet further down range. What if you are set for long range and a 160 class WT deer or 340 class bull elk appears up close?

To me, you spend a lot of money on your equipment, a lot of time preparing for your hunt, saving vacation time, etc and it all comes down to the bullet. This is the reason I have used the PT for so many years. I do give up some MOA to drop and wind drift but I gain predictable on game performance. YMMV
JD338

.................................What would I do if an elk appears closer? I`d shoot!

There is a mis-conception by many that the VLDs are strictly a longer ranged big game bullet...........Not true!

And I`d say that after 14 one shot (mostly DRT) hog kills using the 168 and using one 190 VLD on elk (also a DRT), that these bullets are very predictable in their performance given I do my part!

 

[JD338]

Thanks Big Squeeze.

JD338