Berger VLD

[Palouser]

Does anybody have any experience with Berger bullets. It seems like they make some outrageous claims in terms of performance and I was curious if anyone had the experience to back their claims up. I can't remember the name of the show on TV I saw once but I think it was Extreme Long Range Hunting and they showed a shot on a huge bull elk at over 800 yards and it dropped like a rock.

Thanks!

 

[IdahoCTD]

There was just a discussion here about them

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15668

 

[jmad_81]

Having a hard time not making a smart comment, :lol: .

Read the topic posted above and you'll understand why. Lots of good info in it. Both for and against their use on game. Some good pictures as well.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Some people really like them, others detest them, both based on experience.

It seems to me that with broadside shots they are an excellent long range bullet. The problem, as I found out in 2007, is that an easy quartering away, behind the ribs shot can very quickly turn into a ham shot when the animal moves as the trigger breaks. For shots like this the Berger is not what I want to send downrange.

With the shot mentioned above, the animal was a mulie buck and the bullet was a 140g North Fork from my 7mm RM, MV 3200fps, 150 yards.. Surprising little damage to the ham and the bullet was found up against the sternum. The buck dropped like a stone.

I'll let you decide, based on Berger's own claims, how a bullet that penetrates 2-4" creates a 15" wound channel would have done in that situation. Or how it would have worked if the mulie buck had been a big bull elk...

I figure most of the game I've taken would have dropped to a 40g V-MAX from my .22-250. don't think I'll use that bulet for big game, though.

 

[Palouser]

Thanks guys, I didn't see that post. That is what I was hoping to see. Anything that seems too good to be true is probably too good to be true. I'll stick with Partitions or Accubonds.

Thanks again,

Todd

 

[DrMike]

Good choice, Todd.

 

[FOTIS]

Thanks guys, I didn't see that post. That is what I was hoping to see. Anything that seems too good to be true is probably too good to be true. I'll stick with Partitions or Accubonds.

Thanks again,

Todd

You can do much worse.

 

[Palouser]

This was a 2008 New Mexico Antlerless hunt northeast of Santa Fe, NM in the Pecos Wilderness area. It was a public land, unguided hunt. I used a Remington 700 30.06 loaded with 150 grain Interbonds, and I took one shot at about 35 yards.

As you can see I took this elk in the heavy timber so I had to get really close before I could even see him. He went about 7 feet before collapsing. It was a broadside shot, the bullet destroyed both lungs and I found it in a little ball under the hide on the far side but it hadn't exited. I never weighed it but it looked picture perfect. I am on the right, the other two guys were friends who helped me pack it out.

Todd

 

[Palouser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0vfp2ut ... ature=plcp

The above link is for the 890 yard Elk shot which I think they said they used Berger Bullets on. It is Best of the West on the Outdoor Channel. All are amazing shots, but the one I am talking about is at 51 seconds. I wonder how many misses/wounded shots were taken but not showed. Hopefully none.

Enjoy.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0vfp2utuGA&list=UU5OnuzW7Tv-QivAUjGEtTvw&index=4&feature=plcp

The above link is for the 890 yard Elk shot which I think they said they used Berger Bullets on. It is Best of the West on the Outdoor Channel. All are amazing shots, but the one I am talking about is at 51 seconds. I wonder how many misses/wounded shots were taken but not showed. Hopefully none.

Enjoy.

once you understand ballistics, have the proper equipment, and you know your own limitations, hitting the target at 900 yards isn't that hard. and if your rifle is one that does well with the bergers I can't see any reason not to use them. There are way less wounded/missed shots from folks who know the ropes at long range shootin than there are from archers. learn proper techniques, spend some cash and its not too diffacult. I know this!
an average day of doe hunting same rifle 4 different shooters, 3 of those never shot beyond 200 yards

RR

 

[Desert Fox]

once you understand ballistics, have the proper equipment, and you know your own limitations, hitting the target at 900 yards isn't that hard.

+1

 

[WYcoyote]

Not to rehash the other recent thread, but Bergers seem to have their place at longer ranges with reduced velocities on perhaps smaller framed animals. The VLD shape helps them fly flat and reduce wind drift. Other bullets in this group include Ballistic Tips, SSTs, and other cup and core boattails.
Better choices can be had at high speed, closer range, and big boned critters.
Partitions, Accubonds, Interbonds, Sciroccos, A-Frames, and the monolithics excel here.
For me personally the AB, IB, and Sciroccos, with good ballistic coefficients, can do it all.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I agree with RR also but animals move and targets don't. TOF gets rather long at ranges past 1000yds and as such I choose to limit myself to about that far. I lost a 6 point bull I shot at about 875yds probably 15 years ago because it took a step as I pulled the trigger and I hit him square in the rear leg with a 190gr Berger (I found part of the femur bone and saw the spot on his leg). I followed him for several miles and about 12hrs until he got out of the snow and I lost his tracks. I jumped him twice and never got a shot. I know it could happen at any distance but since then I've tried to get closer if possible for elk and quit hunting the place I shot the 6 point. I've shot deer further since then but not elk. IMO they are generally too tough to recover from a bad hit especially with a Berger hunting bullet.

So far the Matrix bullets I've been shooting appear to be considerably tougher and penetrate much better. The kills aren't dramatic like you see on all the LR hunting shows but I also don't take high shoulder shots. BTW the Berger hunting bullets in the orange boxes are the original bullets Berger made and the same ones I shot the bull with. Then they switched to the heavier jacketed bullets, they now call them target bullets, until the LR hunters started complaining about the target version being too tough and then they reintroduced the earlier thin jacket version as a hunting bullet. I still have probably have 600 to 700 of the .30 cal 185's, 190's, and 210's in the original yellow (50 round) boxes without lot numbers and without the hunting or target designation.

I would still love to see Nosler get into making bonded LR (high BC) AB's similar in shape to the Amax's. I think there are a lot of people that share my thoughts as many people with overbore magnums shoot AB's now because the Bergers wont stay together.

 

[Oldtrader3]

"Outrageous claims" would be my response as well to both Berger and the Best of the West. They are selling ego stuffed dreams, not good judgement. This is a rehash of a rehash and I am not going there tonight.

 

[Guy Miner]

They can be made to shoot pretty good. Three shots with the 210 gr Berger VLD from my .300 WSM. I will readily admit that's the best doggone three shot group I've ever made with this rifle - and I'll also note that I was finally smart enough to stop shooting at three shots instead of going for four or five! :grin: All the same, it's pretty tight. On targets out at 300 and 600 yards I'm getting roughly 1/2 MOA three-shot groups from a supported prone position with my Model 70. The .25-06 isn't as accurate, more like a 3/4 - 1 MOA rifle.

115 gr VLD, .25-06, 400 yards:

115 gr VLD, .25-06, 175 yards:

115 gr VLD, .25-06, 230 yards:

115 gr VLD, .25-06, 160 yards?

For me, they've worked as advertised. Accurate. Flat shooting. Very effective on game. Small entrance wound, devastating internal damage. Quick kills.

I didn't start messing with them for hunting until a few years ago when I read what John Barsness and others had to say about them. A few of my buddies had started using them on game as large as elk, and even moose. I'd used them off and on for target shooting for some years. Walt Berger builds a fine bullet. I've found them to do exactly what Berger claims, no more, no less.

On the other hand, I started using Noslers back in the 1970's, first with my then-new 6mm Remington, and I'm still using them today. Even after being favorably impressed with the Bergers, when I went bear hunting, I chose to use the Nosler AccuBond. It worked exactly as Nosler claimed it would. One shot, one bear, complete penetration and very quick death. Much like the Partitions I've used over the years. This past season my son and I both scored with .30 cal 165 grain Noslers. Mine was the Ballistic Tip, his the older Solid Base. In each case the Noslers performed as advertised. They shot accurately and brought game down quickly. I've never managed to recover a Nosler bullet, not even a Ballistic Tip. Have always seen complete penetration, even on animals that have a reputation of being fairly tough like bear, bull elk and boar.

We've got an awful lot of good bullets available to us anymore, and based on my limited experience with the Bergers, I'll count them as good bullets - they've done all that I've asked. Would I ask them to serve as my do-it-all bullet? No - but I've no axe to grind with them either.

Regards, Guy

 

[DrMike]

I have worked up loads built on Berger VLDs for a ton of rifles over the past years. They have certainly become popular. They tend to be accurate. I've never used them for hunting as my style leads me to get closer to the game and I prefer a more robust bullet that will maintain its integrity when pushed. They are popular, however; and they can be very accurate.

 

[edge]

To avoid a problem in this thread, if you shoot archery then almost any bullet will work.

When I use fragile bullets I use them as if I were archery hunting. I would never take a rear end shot through the ham with archery gear and I would not with a Berger either, perhaps not with an AccuBond either :wink: a solid yes!

I would always pick an AccuBond if the AB had nearly the BC of the Berger AND it was within the velocity range of the AB...1800 fps and as accurate. IMO accuracy almost always tyrumps bullet construction on lightly skinned game...

Neither a Berger nor an AB would be used for elephant :lol:

edge.