Bigger Slower Hammer!

[Guy Miner]

:grin: Sharpsman - a fellow who's opinions on rifles I greatly respect - mentioned a "bigger, slower hammer" in another thread. Despite my long-range, high-velocity rifles, I've got a deep appreciation for my own "bigger, slower hammer" the .45-70 Marlin. What a rifle! Something about it just speaks to me - and I frequently turn to it for hunting. How many of you use a "bigger, slower hammer" for hunting?

When a fellow is new to the .45-70, it's sort of startling to realize that a 300 grain bullet is "light."

Used within reasonable range limitations - the big ol' .45-70 Marlin is one fine hunting rifle! :grin: Regards, Guy

 

[tapehoser]

That is my exact preferred hunting rig. And yes, the 300 grain Partition can put some serious hurt on anything on this planet and is nice and 'light' for the 45-70 Govt.

 

[cloverleaf]

Yeh, thats a "light" gun alright. whatever works for you. They been makin' em for years they must work. I here that Cor Bon makes soem serious Ammo for the 45-70. Elephant medicine dont ya know. CL
Seriously, Nice lookin rifle.

 

[HeathSexton]

Just got a 45-70 in the Encore, 405@1750fps should be heap'um good deer medicine for where I hunt. I was surprised at the accuracy, it shoots real good.

 

[lefty315]

Guy, I think your next purchase should be a .348 Winchester. I was talking to my 89 year old Grandpa today and he mentioned the one he used to have up in Alaska. Surely nothing that can't be beat ballistically but sometimes image is everything. Leaving on the Marine Corps Birthday for Montana, hopefully Chesty Puller will provide us with some presents in the form of some good times and respectable animals. Semper Fi, Lefty.

 

[Guy Miner]

Lefty - I'm trying to convince myself (and my wife) that I'm about done buying rifles!

Yeah - right... :roll:

That good old Model 71 in .348 Winchester is one heck of a rifle... would love to find one - either an original or the high-quality reproduction Browning made some years ago.

Dang... Now I gotta slide funds for another rifle past my wife... :grin:

 

[JD338]

Guy,

Very nice looking rifle.
I have had the 45-70 bug for a while. One of these days, I'm going to add one to the safe!
I already have the dies and brass!

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

I do!

Just picked up a Win 94 Big Bore in 356 Winchester! Like new!

 

[Guy Miner]

Pop - That's great! Can you still get .356 brass or ammo? That was too good a cartridge to die...

 

[FOTIS]

Ammo? Yeah you can get some but I do not use factory stuff. I am currently palying around with the Speer 180 FP and 220 FP. I will report on it.

 

[DrMike]

POP,

I love the .356. I have two which I have developed loads for. I have harvested mule deer, black bear, grizzly and elk with this round. I shoot 250 grain Kodiak FN out of one of the rifles, and Speer 220 grain FN out of the other. It is an awesome round that works on game very, very well.

 

[DrMike]

Consequently, Winchester still makes brass once or twice a year. Ammunition (200 grain power point) is available in northern British Columbia, and I have seen it in Washington State as well. However, this round really develops full potential as a handload.

 

[JD338]

Consequently, Winchester still makes brass once or twice a year. Ammunition (200 grain power point) is available in northern British Columbia, and I have seen it in Washington State as well. However, this round really develops full potential as a handload.

True with most calibers, handloading will get you to the real potential of any given cartridge.
The 35's are great but it seems that the only ones that appreciate them are the guys who shoot them. I have a 35 Whelen (vintage '88 700 Classic) and it is a hammer.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

POP,

I love the .356. I have two which I have developed loads for. I have harvested mule deer, black bear, grizzly and elk with this round. I shoot 250 grain Kodiak FN out of one of the rifles, and Speer 220 grain FN out of the other. It is an awesome round that works on game very, very well.

please post all your loads!!!!!


As far as brass do not worry. In 1995 I was messing around and I figured this out!

Take 444 Marlin brass. 1 pass through the 358/356 die. Trim to length---(I use the lee cuuter/stud/ length gauge and a drill--
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=271467 ----- which I had them custom make for me)

and Viola! 356 brass. :wink:

 

[DrMike]

POP.

I initially worked up loads with Speer 220 g FN and with Hornady 250 g RN. I still use the 220 g Speer FN as a hunting round, and I have also worked up a hunting load with 250 g Kodiak FN. Should you attempt to use the data from the older Speer and/or Hodgdon manuals for 250 grain Hornady RN loads, be advised that switching to either 250 grain Kodiak or 250 grain Hawk bullets will quickly push your development to dangerous pressure long before you reach maximum. You will need to carefully monitor the loads. The loads that follow are safe in my rifles. Each was worked up carefully, monitoring for excessive pressure.

First, with 220 g Speer FN, I hunt with the following load: WW .356 once fired (full-length resized) or new brass, WLR primer and 45.0 g IMR 4895. This gives me a v = 2285 +/- 17 and groups into ~0.9 ". I also load WLR primers and 45.5 g IMR 4064 (v = 2260), CCI250 primers and 49.0 W748 (v = 2240), CCI200 primers with 45.5 g IMR4320 (v = 2138) CCI250 primers and 43.0 g H335 (v = 2174), CCI250 primers with 49.0 g H380, WLR primers and 45.5 g IMR 4064 (v = 2242). Each of the groups gives three-shot groups measuring between 0.6 " and 1.25 ". With the IMR 4895, I have taken mule deer, elk, grizzly and black bear. The rifle shoots dead on at 200 yd when sighted 2 1/2 " high at 100 yd. This is a 250 yd round at most, but everything I have shot has been at less than 125 yd. Some of the game was quite close, making for an exciting hunt. Most were "bang!" "flop!"

I have had limited success with 250 g Hawk FN (0.030 jacket). The best group I had was with WLR primers and 39.0 g IMR 4895 (v = 2000/0.60 " to 0.75 " group). However, the standard deviation has never been satisfactory for this particular load. Since Hawk bullets are hard to acquire in northern British Columbia, I have gradually permitted my inventory to be depleted without restocking this particular bullet.

My hunting load with 250 Kodiak FN bullets is WLR primers with 40.5 g IMR 4895 (v = 2096 +/- 26) for 0.75 " to 1 1/2 ". This load has taken elk and black bear quite cleanly. It prints quite good groups at 200 yd. I have also used WLR primers with 40.0 g H4895 (v = 2114) and with 42.5 BL-C(2) (v = 2156). I am currently working up a load with H335 and WLR primers that shows considerable promise.

 

[DrMike]

Ammo? Yeah you can get some but I do not use factory stuff. I am currently palying around with the Speer 180 FP and 220 FP. I will report on it.

I have a supply of the old 250 grain Winchester PP factory ammunition. I still use it at the range from time-to-time, though I do not use it for hunting. It will consistently shoot between 0.5 " and 1.0 ", and yields an average velocity of ~2000 fps in my rifle. Winchester does make a 200 grain PP loading that is available, but the handloads I make do a much better job on bigger game.

 

[FOTIS]

This is my newest toy! Barely fired, no safety. Have no idead year of make but like new! Man did I get lucky! Win 94 Big Bore 356

Thanx for tha data Dr Mike!

 

[DrMike]

POP,

That model 94 is a beautiful rifle. Someone took good care of it. I had one of mine Teflon coated, and topped it with a B&L 3200 2X-7X. The other, older rifle, is topped with a Leupold VX-III 2X-8X. I had the first originally topped with a peep sight, but my eyes don't seem to be as quick to adjust as they once were. The scope permits me to use these fine rifles despite my aging eyes.

I do love the .356. I would love to find one that I could afford in a Marlin 336ER. I also love the 375 Win. Unfortunately, I passed up the opportunity to buy two fine model 94s chambered in 375 Win last winter. I have a friend that has a Marlin chambered for the 375. I'm trying to negotiate with him for that rifle.

I have always loved the big, slow calibres. I cannot help but think that a 45-70 would be a great round for elk and bear. I am on the lookout for just such a rifle.

I trust the data will work as well for you as it has for me.

 

[FOTIS]

I will give it a wirl and report back.