Bob and the E-Tip

[Bruce Mc]

I started working up loads with the E-Tip and my .257 Roberts today. My first step ended up being a bit of a stumble. I had decided that Reloder 17 might be a good place to start. Wrong! Since I couldn't find any loading data on the combo I just kind extrapolated a bit and came up with 40 grs as a starting point. I planned to cook a couple rounds over the chronograph to see where it sits velocity wise before loading up a series to take to the range. Well the 40 grs. completely flattened the primers and gave only 2900 fps from the 24" barrel. I'll start again with the old standby 4350 and see what happens. Looks like Reloder 17 isn't the ticket after all.

 

[JD338]

Bruce thanks for the heads up.
I am waiting on my shipment and will start load development. RL 22 and IMR 4350 are what I am going to use.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

Bruce,

I appreciate your posting this information. I won't receive my 257 Etips for a couple of weeks, I'm afraid. It will be interesting to see your results with other powders.

 

[FOTIS]

Please let us know how she works out.

 

[Bruce Mc]

I looked up some loads and I think I'm starting with H4350 and Reloder 19. We'll see how they shake out tomorrow.

Here they are.
Remington Cases OAL is 2.900. Exactly 0.050 off the lands. Fed large rifle primer.

 

[bullet]

RL-17 will be more trouble that it is worth in most cases as I see result from friends of mine.

I love how the e-tip looks, it is a cool looking bullet but I just can't get it to shoot in 30cal rifles of mine. The biggest complaint I have is that I was not able to get usual velocities for the cartridge I was using. I could get accuracy once in a while but no load would group after group keep shooting good. I really hope this works out for you.

I can get 200gr SST bullets to shot well in my 340wby and I will try the 200gr e-tips in the near future and who knows, I might get lucky this time. I really would like to, because at 340Wby velocities that would work well one would think with a lead free bullet.

 

[JD338]

Bruce,

FWIW,

I have had good luck seating .100" off the lands. It seems to me, as with others, that the E-Tips like a lot of jump.
Any reason why you are .050" off the lands? Are you shooting your M700 Classic?

JD338

 

[Bruce Mc]

There was a note with the bullets that said to seat them from 0.050 to 0.0something. So I started at 0.050 off thelands. And yes I am loading for my 700 Classic.

 

[DrMike]

Bruce,

With monolithic bullets, the rules as first developed were to seat them no closer than 0.030 inches. Many people began at 0.050 inches. More recent studies indicate that a longer jump to the lands frequently give greater accuracy. 0.100 inches seems to be a good compromise for these bullets. You might want to look at a little more jump to the lands.

 

[Bruce Mc]

Beautiful day for shooting. 73 degrees with a 7mph breeze from the NW.
Shot one fouling shot from a very clean barrel.

First Load:

48.0 grs. Reloder 19
Nickel Remington Case: 2.900 OAl
Federal Large Rifle Primer
Average Muzzle Velocity: 3068 fps

Group: 1/2"

Second Load:

45.0 grs. H-4350
Same case primer and OAL
Average Muzzle Velocity: 3174 fps

Group: 3/4"

Not too bad for first out. These were three shot groups. Looks like both powders show a lot of promise. I'll need to tweek the lengths a bit and see how the Reloder 19 works at a tad higher velocity. The 4350 is right where i want it for velocity.

 

[SJB358]

Wow, that is great speed with the 4350, nothing too shabby with a 3/4 inch group either. I guess I am pretty easy, cause when they shoot like that, I load up 9 more to see if they are consistent and if they are, I call it a day. That is some great shooting Bruce. I bet those ETips will make the 257 seem a little bigger than it is! Scotty

 

[JD338]

Bruce,

Nice shooting!
With the H4350 load loaded to OAL 2.900", I assume you are .050" off the lands. Are you going to try .100" off the lands?

JD338

 

[Bruce Mc]

JD, both loads were 0.050 off the lands. The 100 e-tip is 2.950 to the lands in my 700 classic. By the way, the 100 e-tip is very close in length to the 115 BT and obviously has a very similar profile. The 115 BT has the same length to lands. I'm gonna seat them in to 0.075 and 0.100 and check results.

 

[JD338]

Bruce,

Thanks for your input. My bullets will arrive next week and I will be testing next weekend and post results. Are you going to try RL 22?

JD338

 

[kraky]

Bruce....for what it's worth I ran your intital RE17 load of 40 grains past quickload and it thought you'd do 2889fps at 48k pressure. I think you flattened primers came from not having enough pressure to grip your chamber walls well and the case expanded back towards your bolt with the primer backing out just a tad....giving the false illusion of a high pressure situation.
This coul "look" worse if you have a bit of headspace on your sized brass or were shooting new brass.

 

[Bruce Mc]

Kraky,
Thank you for the data. I'll give grain or two a try and see what happens. A half a grain at time.

 

[Bruce Mc]

Kraky, thanks for the tip. It was spot on. I tried Reloder 17 again with a tad more powder and with a neck sized case and got a perfectly rounded primer. I'll be working with the Reloder 17 some more later. I sure would like to see that quick load printout on reloder 17.

I changed the oal to 2.855 and it made little difference in the groups. The reloder 19 grouped around 5/8" and the H4350 shot right at 1" That is 0.095 off the lands. Maybe the sweet spot is somewhere in between.

By the way, I also tried a load in my 25-06. 54 grs Reloder 19 gave me 3241 fps and a 1" group.

 

[kraky]

Here's a work sheet on re17. The columns will get "goofy" when I post them but hopefully you can figure it out. I used a 110 AccuBond bullet as ql doesn't have the e tip in the library. I feel the long mono e tip will probably make very near the pressure of the 110 ab. I "think" this from my experiences with the 180 etip in my 30-06....I max out about 2 grains under a nos bt. One last note....ql data is just a tad conservative compared to the re17 I've bought...you may be able to eak another grain our so out of your loads.

Cartridge : .257 Roberts
Bullet : .257, 110, Nosler AccuBond 53742
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.775 inch or 70.49 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 69 32.00 2343 1341 26399 7715 91.0 1.563
-18.0 71 32.80 2398 1404 27987 7964 92.2 1.543
-16.0 73 33.60 2453 1469 29667 8205 93.3 1.505
-14.0 75 34.40 2508 1536 31443 8437 94.3 1.468
-12.0 76 35.20 2563 1604 33321 8661 95.3 1.433
-10.0 78 36.00 2617 1673 35308 8874 96.2 1.398
-08.0 80 36.80 2672 1744 37411 9077 97.0 1.363
-06.0 82 37.60 2727 1816 39635 9268 97.7 1.327
-04.0 83 38.40 2781 1889 41991 9446 98.3 1.291
-02.0 85 39.20 2835 1964 44486 9611 98.8 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 87 40.00 2889 2039 47129 9762 99.2 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 89 40.80 2943 2115 49932 9898 99.6 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 90 41.60 2996 2192 52906 10018 99.8 1.161 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 92 42.40 3048 2270 56060 10123 99.9 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 94 43.20 3101 2348 59413 10212 100.0 1.103 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 96 44.00 3152 2427 62974 10290 100.0 1.075 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 87 40.00 3016 2221 55993 9465 100.0 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 87 40.00 2713 1798 39101 9534 93.9 1.334

 

[kraky]

Also please note that ql uses about 52k as top pressure for the Bob. Not sure why that is when somethng like a 270 win is listed at 63k. Is there something about the brass being weak or were there just very old guns out there in that caliber???

 

[JD338]

kraky

I have loaded my 257 Roberts with IMR 4350 over published load data by a couple grains and have not had any high pressure signs and R_P case life is just fine.
I think you can adjust the PSI on QL.

JD338