Brass...Norma vs Lapua

[TEC]

I am working with my first 100 Lapua 308 cases. Have now fired them all once in my CZ550 Varmint with good results, and have reloaded 50 of the fire formed cases with my best known accuracy load for some serious testing (168 Berger VLDs over 42.0 Varget, CCI BR-2 primers). I have refrained from doing anything to the new Lapua brass except for a very light chamfer to the neck before reloading. Neck wall thickness is consistent, but the case lengths are somewhat variable, particularly after first firing.

The best accuracy with my CZ is with bullets seated touching the lands. It had been my thought to leave the case necks as long as possible, but I don't know if trimming to a uniform case length of, say, 2.007" would be the better option. By comparison, I am also testing resized 30-06 brass necked down to 308, turned, reamed, and trimmed to 2.014", and the preliminary results with this resized brass has been excellent.

Should I delay any trimming of the Lapua as long as possible, or trim it back to uniformity?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Case trimming is most important if you turning the necks or if you are crimping the bullets...

Its always better to have consistent length IMO, it seems to me it could mount up to inconsistent bullet pull which can effect ES and SD numbers.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

While we're discussing "procedures"...

I've been reading a lot of stuff from German Salazar about 30-06 accuracy secrets...he says he sizes his brass for .000"-.001" headspace, which prolongs brass life a little...he claims up to 13 firings, and that bumping the shoulder is not required on some rounds, the 30-06 being one of them.

He also claims that this doesn't hurt the bolt lugs because of the 30-06's mild 17.5 degree shoulder angle...that makes sense to me...but I've never done it.

I'm gonna try it...I've never cared for neck sizing only...if Germans way works, its the best of both worlds.

I'm anxious to load a few rounds in the Lapua brass and get some measurements...I may have to turn necks myself...the chamber in my 30-06 is a very tight one...I had it checked (I don't have the tools) and it is within SAAMI spec, but very well to the tight side of it...this fits with FN's claim about the chambers in their SPR line of rifles.

 

[usmc 89]

Both are similar in quality, if your going to run your loads on the stiff side get the lapua, if you are going to run consetvative loads norma will last as well.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Got a few rounds loaded in the Lapua brass...ready to check the speed and find max in this brass. I stopped at 57.5 grains (H4350) because that was a lightly compressed load...same as 58 grains in Winchester brass.



The Redding National Match dies...are great! Redding makes their dies so they size to SAAMI minimum head space...and FN makes their chambers to SAAMI minimum also...a match made in heaven.

I started out with the sizing die set 3 turns above contacting the shell holder...at that setting it left a small part of the neck unsized...I worked my way down until it was just barely bumping the shoulder...turns out I could have just followed the instructions with the die because that's exactly where it ended up...contacting the shell holder.

The micrometer seater....why in the world did I wait so long to get one of these? The thing does just what it says it will...seats bullets with less runout, precise seating depth adjustments are easy as pie...the micrometer is accurate.

The Lapua brass...again, why did I wait so long to try it? It is VERY consistent in weight and length...I checked 100 cases and every one was within .5 grain in weight and .001" in length.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Chrono results...

55 grains = 2,699 fps
55.5 ....2,743 fps
56....2,737 fps
56.5....2,795 fps
57...2,789 fps
57.5......2, 850 fps...right where I want it, and figured it would be in the thicker, heavier Lapua brass.

ETA: I just loaded a few rounds at 57.5 using a highly sophisticated drop tube setup (McDonalds straw, duct tape)...that load fits without compression using the drop tube.

I'm gonna put them on paper tomorrow and see what they do.

 

[jason miller]

Just because I'm curious... Are those either 165 or 168's? What's your COAL?

I ask because I've loaded 168's at 3.325" with 59 gr of h4350 and not been compressed in winchester brass...

 

[Oldtrader3]

Norma and Nosler brass are the same thing. Norma makes most of Nosler brass. I have weighed and done T test on Nosler .340 Weatherby brass versus Nosler and they are the same product weight wise.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Had a very good day on the range today...

The Redding Master Hunter dies and the Lapua brass...did the trick...

I shot five 3 shot groups, zeroing the load 1.75" high at 100 yards...and all of them were one hole, not even ragged.

I know many are gonna call BS...and I don't really blame you...but I did it, and I had a witness.

Lapua brass
CCI BR2 primer
57.5 grains of H4350
168 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
OAL 3.34" (.005" off the lands)
2,850 fps

 

[Ridgerunner665]

And that is not knocking Nosler brass...just updating the thread as to how the Lapua worked.

 

[longrangehunter]

Great to hear everything went together so well RR..... It's always a welcome sight to see great success come so easily without burning up bullets and powder let alone your barrel. I've always had great success with Nolser Ballistic Tips during load development and on the game they bring down.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I believe you RR, my .30-06 does the same thing when I do my part with 168 BT's and IMR 4350 (57.5 grs).

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Just because I'm curious... Are those either 165 or 168's? What's your COAL?

I ask because I've loaded 168's at 3.325" with 59 gr of h4350 and not been compressed in winchester brass...

168 BT's....OAL is ~3.34"....The Lapua brass I'm using is thicker than Winchester brass...57.5 isn't compressed with a drop tube, but it is full.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Great to hear everything went together so well RR..... It's always a welcome sight to see great success come so easily without burning up bullets and powder let alone your barrel. I've always had great success with Nolser Ballistic Tips during load development and on the game they bring down.

I'd didn't happen overnight....I've spent 3 years, over $2000, and several hundred rounds downrange getting this rifle where it is...it was always a good shooting rifle with any decent ammo...but finding the right combination to get those bughole groups took some doing.

The difference between Lapua and Winchester brass is nothing short of amazing...this rifle has expensive taste!

The Redding Master Hunter die set made some difference too...much better chamber fit, the rifle has a very tight chamber, within SAAMI spec...but very well to the tight side of it (FN is well known for this, I had this one checked, and it is .001" over minimum)....the sizing die is the same way...the micrometer seater is the greatest thing since sliced bead!!!....much better concetricity.

She (the rifle) is now a finely tuned peice of hardware...ready for anything.

 

[DrMike]

'Tis a lovely rifle, that's for sure.

 

[longrangehunter]

+1 to say the least, looks like it shoots!