Can a bullet be to tough?
- Thread starter jmad_81
- Start date
Desert Fox
Handloader
- Aug 14, 2006
- 1,965
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.405":1y69iety said:
Are you sure about that? A few years back, I was cited by a DFG Warden here in Cali for hunting with a non expanding bullet. Ballistic tip is considered a non expanding bullet here.
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,141
- 121
Desert Fox":2qfhehky said:.405":2qfhehky said:
Are you sure about that? A few years back, I was cited by a DFG Warden here in Cali for hunting with a non expanding bullet. Ballistic tip is considered a non expanding bullet here.
That warden is an idiot. What a load of crap, the BT a non-expanding bullet. I hope you fought that citation.
Antelope_Sniper, that is interesting to be sure because the 250 Sierra's I was relating to were made 20 years ago, or more, as well. Just a prime example of different experiences people will have with the same bullets.
As to the comment about what's not to like about the AccuBond, nothing that does not apply to any other bullet, some guns just do not shoot them well. My .338 Win Mag and my 300 Wby simply do not shoot Accubonds for beans, no matter what I try.
When the first 225 Accubonds came out in .338 caliber I shot them in no less than five different rifles with dismal results. Then I tried them in a friend's .338 RUM and it shot like a varmint rifle. (Groups of 0.35 "!) You just have to try them and see.
As to the comment about what's not to like about the AccuBond, nothing that does not apply to any other bullet, some guns just do not shoot them well. My .338 Win Mag and my 300 Wby simply do not shoot Accubonds for beans, no matter what I try.
When the first 225 Accubonds came out in .338 caliber I shot them in no less than five different rifles with dismal results. Then I tried them in a friend's .338 RUM and it shot like a varmint rifle. (Groups of 0.35 "!) You just have to try them and see.
Doesn't sound like many people have actually killed anything with the E-Tip. I have killed a few things with it so here goes...you decide from here...
.300 Win Mag 180gr E-Tip
I shot a large wild hog at 85+-yards running away. Both bullets hit 2/3rds back on the hog. First bullet broke 3 or 4 vertibrea (did not penetrate the spine) traveled under the hide into the front shoulder. The second hit next to the first, but missed the spine and was recovered in the hogs mouth. Over 2 feet of penetration and expanded perfectly. The damage looked no different than I would expect from any other bullet. Indications were the bullets started opening pretty quickly.
I've shot a handful of coyotes with the 6mm 90gr E-Tip and all showed good expansion. Most coyotes were shot in the 40-70 yard range. All had, roughly, silver dollar+- sized exits, indicating good expansion. Same goes for the few coyotes my buddy has shot using the 7mm E-Tip from his 7mm-08.
My buddy shot an Aoudad Sheep a few years back at 51 yards quartering towards him using his .270 and 130gr Ballistic Tip. That is the only time I have ever been a little skeptical about choosing the Ballistic Tip for such a dense animal. Granted, it was a bang flop, but he only got about 6 inches of penetration. I think an AccuBond or Partition would have been a better choice. That same rifle/load took 2 whitetail on that trip with perfect results on quartering toward shots 150 yards and 110 yards.
I used the 110gr AccuBond from my .25-06 on mule deer and Antelope. The mule deer was running quartering away at just over 200 yards. I hit him just behind the ribs and the AccuBond was lodged in the vertibrea next to the base of the skull. The Antelope was broadside at 185 yards, I spined him. There was a nickle sized exit hole. I wish I'd used the 100gr Ballistic Tip.
All indications to me show Nosler has, again developed a very good product in the E-Tip. Although, I am forced to use a non-lead bullet and would rather shoot my Ballistic Tips and Accubonds, but have not been disappointed in the E-Tips.
.300 Win Mag 180gr E-Tip
I shot a large wild hog at 85+-yards running away. Both bullets hit 2/3rds back on the hog. First bullet broke 3 or 4 vertibrea (did not penetrate the spine) traveled under the hide into the front shoulder. The second hit next to the first, but missed the spine and was recovered in the hogs mouth. Over 2 feet of penetration and expanded perfectly. The damage looked no different than I would expect from any other bullet. Indications were the bullets started opening pretty quickly.
I've shot a handful of coyotes with the 6mm 90gr E-Tip and all showed good expansion. Most coyotes were shot in the 40-70 yard range. All had, roughly, silver dollar+- sized exits, indicating good expansion. Same goes for the few coyotes my buddy has shot using the 7mm E-Tip from his 7mm-08.
My buddy shot an Aoudad Sheep a few years back at 51 yards quartering towards him using his .270 and 130gr Ballistic Tip. That is the only time I have ever been a little skeptical about choosing the Ballistic Tip for such a dense animal. Granted, it was a bang flop, but he only got about 6 inches of penetration. I think an AccuBond or Partition would have been a better choice. That same rifle/load took 2 whitetail on that trip with perfect results on quartering toward shots 150 yards and 110 yards.
I used the 110gr AccuBond from my .25-06 on mule deer and Antelope. The mule deer was running quartering away at just over 200 yards. I hit him just behind the ribs and the AccuBond was lodged in the vertibrea next to the base of the skull. The Antelope was broadside at 185 yards, I spined him. There was a nickle sized exit hole. I wish I'd used the 100gr Ballistic Tip.
All indications to me show Nosler has, again developed a very good product in the E-Tip. Although, I am forced to use a non-lead bullet and would rather shoot my Ballistic Tips and Accubonds, but have not been disappointed in the E-Tips.
- Thread starter
- #26
If I lived or hunted in CA I would be using E tips for sure! I have shot some TSX before and they worked. My buddy shot a six point bull at six yards head on in the chest and only found 1 petal. The bull turned and started to walk off with blood pouring out of his chest, when he cought another one in the ribs for good measure. I like the E tip holding togeather better, and if it opens up as good as everybody is saying I might have to give them a try in my 338 WM.
I have had bad luck getting the 225 AB to shoot in my 338 WM as well.
I have had bad luck getting the 225 AB to shoot in my 338 WM as well.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,507
- 6,524
DF,
It is difficult to believe that any knowledgeable DFG Warden could make such a call. One has to believe it was a rookie or a desk jockey that was out in the field for the first time.
I have heard a variety of horror stories concerning bullets that are too tough on other forums. The AB, in particular, received a lot of bad reviews from "hunters" for some time. However, I have either killed or witnessed the kill of perhaps twenty animals with ABs during the past couple of years, and the bullet performed as expected and all the animals died. I have witnessed the kill of many animals with the Barnes TSX in a variety of calibres, and all the animals died as expected. I had a couple of instances when people told me that either a Swift A-Frame or a Trophy Bonded bullet was too tough, but the animal died in any case.
A bad shot is a bad shot, and an animal shot poorly is likely to run for quite a distance. A shot through the heart/lung region will bring an animals down, even if it runs a considerable distance. A spine shot makes a poor bullet look like an excellent choice.
I still believe we are living in a great period when a variety of excellent bullet choices are available. Kudos to the manufacturers for their research and work on providing some excellent choices. Nosler is to be commended for bringing out some excellent bullets and improving on what is available. I'm looking forward to using the E-Tip this fall.
I personally want a bullet to expend all it's energy inside the animal.I have found that they die quicker.I prefer instant death when I squeeze the trigger.
I get that about eight out of ten times using a 130 ballistic tip from my .270 win on deer.I also get that with my .405 winchester.I have seen a shock wave and a yellowish cloud of hair being released all over the deers body.It looks like yellow dust exploding off of the skin.
I am retired from killing for the most part.I still love to hunt, but killing just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I hunt hard watch a lot of game, and a may fire a shot once in a season or three.I killed a nice whitetail buck last November.I spend most of my time shooting targets and searching for accuracy.I guess if my wife an I both lose our jobs ,I will come out of retirement and start meat hunting again.
I get that about eight out of ten times using a 130 ballistic tip from my .270 win on deer.I also get that with my .405 winchester.I have seen a shock wave and a yellowish cloud of hair being released all over the deers body.It looks like yellow dust exploding off of the skin.
I am retired from killing for the most part.I still love to hunt, but killing just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I hunt hard watch a lot of game, and a may fire a shot once in a season or three.I killed a nice whitetail buck last November.I spend most of my time shooting targets and searching for accuracy.I guess if my wife an I both lose our jobs ,I will come out of retirement and start meat hunting again.
My experiance with the Nosler AccuBond is limited to 1 WT deer shot with a 200 grn AB from a 30-378 @ 300m. The deer had sustained a hit from my wife with my 257wby and she hit a leg. I hit it opn the run turning towards me. The bullet went thro a rib, 14inches of spine finally shattered on the femur on the opposite side and all fragments exited. We lost half of the meat, but the deer was dispatched, DRT within a couple seconds of being hit the first time.
JT.
JT.
Larry in SD
Handloader
- Nov 8, 2004
- 426
- 1
I hunted exclusively with Specialty Pistol chambered for Rifle Type Cartridges for 20 something years. In the course of all those years I have had to track way more Whitetail Deer due to bullets not expanding than because of the bullets failure to penetrate. There have been several that come to mind, one was a Remington 80gr. Power Lokt Hollow Point out of a custom 6mm T/CU that failed to expand on a broadside chest shot on a nice sized whitetail doe at 200 yards. Both bullets entered between two ribs and exited between two ribs, just like poking a pencil through the chest.
Anotehr was the Speer 130gr. Spitzer Boat Tails out of a 7mm IHMSA Remington XP-100. I was a slow learner in regards to this bullet on Whitetails as I had the same exact results on 5 Whitetails before I switched to the old 120gr. Nosler Solid Base Spitzer Boat Tail.
In Speciality Pistols firing Rifle Type Cartridges I learned long ago that the Nosler Ballistic Tips were the bullet of choice. I have also shot a lot of Whitetail Deer in Rifles using Nosler Ballistic Tips and never recall recovering a single bullet. I only take broadside shots and never shoot for the shoulder and the Ballistic Tips suit me fine.
Larry
Anotehr was the Speer 130gr. Spitzer Boat Tails out of a 7mm IHMSA Remington XP-100. I was a slow learner in regards to this bullet on Whitetails as I had the same exact results on 5 Whitetails before I switched to the old 120gr. Nosler Solid Base Spitzer Boat Tail.
In Speciality Pistols firing Rifle Type Cartridges I learned long ago that the Nosler Ballistic Tips were the bullet of choice. I have also shot a lot of Whitetail Deer in Rifles using Nosler Ballistic Tips and never recall recovering a single bullet. I only take broadside shots and never shoot for the shoulder and the Ballistic Tips suit me fine.
Larry
