CCI 250 mag primers not igniting?

[elmer deer]

Here is the problem I ran acroos today, I have 2 times fierd brass that was going on 3rd firing today, they were PFL resized.
This brass fired some loads that had pressure signs, Ex:extracter marks and slightly sticky bolt once in a while. I did back down from those loads some.
So here is what happened today I loaded some of my favourite loads and tried them with the cci 250 mag primers instead of the fed 215 primers. I did back down first and worked my way up, Now withe the origianal primer fed 215 mag they would always fire, with the cci I had 20 out of 45 rnds not go off, now I am wondering what could it be? Did I trash my brass by shooting hot loads, but my primer pockets are still pretty tight.
My action is a Stiller Predator, my caliber is 7mm Dakota, and my brass is Norma.

1) Is my brass the problem? Primer pockets are still pretty tight.
2)Are the cci 250 mag primers different in size, height, width, to make my firing pin not strike them hard enough?
3)How deep should primers be seated? I always seat primers with my rcbs hand primer and after the first squeeze I rotate the brass and squeeze again, never had a problem doing it that way before.
4)Can ther be something wrong with my firirg pin?
Thanks
Elmer

 

[DrMike]

While it is possible that you have a bad lot of the CCI250 primers (I recently had a bad lot of CCI250 primers and about one out of three failed to ignite) it is more likely that the primer is not fully seated. My experience with CCI primers is that the cup is less malleable than the cup for Remington, Winchester or Federal primers. Consequently, you must be certain that the primer is seated firmly in the bottom of the primer pocket. If the primer is not fully seated, misfires are somewhat common. Once you address this issue, they are fine primers that work very well.

 

[JD338]

I agree with DrMike, Make sure the primers are fully seated intp the primer pocket.

JD338

 

[chet]

I also agree.. try to think of it like this:

lets say that the primer needs to travel another .003" before it bottoms out.
how much energy would it take from the firing pin to move the primer that much? How much energy would be left over to actually ignite the primer?
would there be enough?

other possibilties:

gunked up firing pin.... ooze and goo inside the bolt can slow it down

slightly bent firing pin...... rubbing one side of the hole in the bolt face, robbing energy

bad lot of primers..... doubtful, but it happens call CCI with the lot number

I used CCI's almost exclusively... but when I had problems with my kimber 84m someone suggested that winchester primers are a little more sensitive. I paid closer attention to fully seating them and haven't had a misfire in 25 shots out of that soft kissing kimber

One last thing:
contamination..... that's a bad word in our world! case lube being the most common culprit..... oh, and don't piss off your wife if she knows what wd-40 does to primers.... dont ask me how I know

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

CCI primers cups are the hardest. Winchesters are the softest. In the past I've seen rifles work fine with Winchester primers, but not CCI. As previously suggested, sometime this can be fixed with a good cleaning of the disassambled bolt.
Try some WMRP's if you have them and see what happens. Try the CCI primers in a different rifle. This way you will know the source of the problem, and how to proceed.

 

[R Flowers]

I totally agree with Antelope_Sniper, try the CCI's in another rifle and see if the problem persists.

I seriously doubt that the brass is the problem, and if the rifle will fire Federal primers I cannot see why it would not fire CCI's.

It is unlikely that you have a bad lot of primers, but it does happen. I once bought a brick of Remington 9 1/2 primers that had soft cups and would pierce even with mild loads. I called Remington, gave them the lot number and they said they knew that lot had a problem. They had me ship them the primers and they refunded my money.

Storage is the other question. How have the CCI's been stored. I once had a bunch of primed Remington cases for the 6mm Remington that had been stored in a garage in 100 degree heat, then taken to Montana and stored in a garage at -40 degrees, then brought back to California. When I tried to use that brass some would fire fine, some would not.

 

[JD338]

RF

Good point regarding storage. With the recent shortage issues and all the hoarding, I would be real careful who you buy primers from in the future.

JD338

 

[elmer deer]

Ok here goes my primer pockets are .1285-.1305" deep from same lot of brass measured with a caliper, and the primers that didnt go off were saeted .009-.010" deep from flush, is that the correct depth? i think I seated them to the bottom as I always squeeze my hand primer twice and rotate.
Thanks
Elmer

 

[JD338]

elmer deer

That sounds about right. Try a few primers in a different case/caliber/rifle.

JD338

 

[Guest]

I've always seated a little shallower than that, guys. I've got an RCBS Primer checking tool (they don't make anymore, but it sure is handy!) that has two ends. The "Go" end has a primer sized dimple standing .002" above the face, and the "No Go" end has a similar dimple .005" above the face. The idea is that the "Go" end should rest flat against the case head, and the "No Go" end should rest with the dimple against the primer, and the tool will have a slight "rock" to it against the case head. It's hard to describe, but easy to use. Anyway, you may be seating deeper than required and ending up with not enough strike depth on the primer face. Of course, my Speer manual mentions that cci primers are optimally sensitive when set at .003-.005" below the face of the casehead, and then adds, "with the legs of the anvil in contact with the bottom of the primer pocket." In this case, you must choose one or the other, I suppose. Just food for thought.

 

[Banshee]

You aren't alone with CCI 250s that don't fire. I called CCI with the lot number and mine are not known to be a poor lot. I was finding that 1 in 10 wouldn't ignite.

I switched to Winchesters and haven't had any no fires since. I am using up the CCIs for fouling loads.

 

[JD338]

I find this rather disturbing to have several individuals having misfires with CCI primers!

JD338

 

[C.Smith]

I find this rather disturbing to have several individuals having misfires with CCI primers!

JD338

Me too, are these newer primers?

Corey

 

[elmer deer]

I find this rather disturbing to have several individuals having misfires with CCI primers!

JD338

Me too, are these newer primers?

Corey

Yes they are new, about 1 year old from the time I bought them.

Thanks
Elmer

 

[Banshee]

Mine were purchased within the past year.

I think it is related to hardness of the primer. When it happens, I remove the round and rechamber it multiple times to try to fire it.

I fully seat (to the point of denting) primers.

Maybe a weak spring/dirty firing pin, but not an issue with WLR.

 

[DrMike]

I have had two separate lots of CCI250 primers that yielded sporadic ignition.

In fairness, during my years of hand loading, I can recall two lots of WLR primers that gave me the same problem. Ultimately, after changing out the firing pin and spring in a Model 94, I still had sporadic ignition with the WLR primers. However, they worked fine in my Model 70s. I simply reserved those lots for load development and marked them to be avoided for hunting. Nothing like having a misfire when you are holding aim on an agitated grizzly.

The CCI250 primers were from this past year and about one in three did not ignite with my Hawkeye in 35 Whelan. I dressed the firing pin and verified that the spring was free of debris, but they still were intermittent in igniting. Ultimately, those two lots were set aside for load development when I wasn't absolutely dependent on ignition.

Bad lots happen, but I still contend they are the exception. Usually, I have found that when I observe misfires, I haven't fully seated the primer to ensure that the legs are in firm contact with the bottom of the primer pocket.

 

[SJB358]

I haven't shot as many rounds as you guys have, but I do shoot alot of CCI250's and have NEVER had a CCI of any kind not go off. Knocking on wood now... I do wash my hands after sizing to get any lube off my hands and make sure I don't excessively handle the primers. I also seat with my Forster and that states it seats them all to .005. Can't do any more or less. I have CCI350's that were brought from NY to California, back to NC and then up to Virginia, over 14 years old and they have been firing off fine. I have tried to keep them sheltered as much as I could. Hopefully I am just lucky and nothing bad will happen, but I try to keep any lube off them and handle them very gently with clean paws. Scotty

 

[elmer deer]

Mine were purchased within the past year.

I think it is related to hardness of the primer. When it happens, I remove the round and rechamber it multiple times to try to fire it.

I fully seat (to the point of denting) primers.

Maybe a weak spring/dirty firing pin, but not an issue with WLR
.

Well I checked the firing pin, I checked to see if trigger sear was slowing down the firng pin,and i also checked the depth my pockets in all my brassfired and new everything is the same, so then ,I thouhgt i had seated them to deep but I seated some in new brass and chambered and fired five rnds and those went off, next I pulled about 10 rnds that had not fired and chambered those and pessed the trigger 3-4 times on each and made the primer look like a crater and they still didnt go off, so I am starting to think that its the primers, they're no good.
Elmer

 

[SJB358]

Sorry to hear about that. Call CCI and see if they will make it right. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Bad lots occur. Generally, companies and/or suppliers are glad to know of the problem and will make it right.

Elmer,

You were right to rule out the rifle and your technique. You should have no problem with getting satisfaction. I would be greatly surprised if you were not offered fresh primers when you contact ATK.