Deformed tips

[old #7]

We all strive for accuracy when reloading and a part of that is finding a good seating depth.
Most of my rifles shoot best when the bullet is seated within .010 from the lands (magazine lenght permitting)
There lies the problem....when I seat the bullet close to the lands I am also close to the maximum length for the mag box.
When i load up the mag box and fire a round the plastic tips get deformed from recoil and my groups start to open up.
If I seat the bullet deep enough so the tip dosen't deform durring recoil my groups also open up.
When I am at the range I always load one cartrige at a time. When I am hunting I have a full mag box.
I assume that I will put the animal down with the first shot due to all of the range time and the quality of the hand loads but, seeing smashed and bent tips doesn't help my confidence level if I need a follow up shot.

What do you guys think?

 

[JD338]

Unless you are shooting really long (400 yds +) ranges, the deformed tips won't make much, if any, difference.

JD338

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I've never noticed any amount of difference in accuracy that I can tell from smashed plastic tips out to 800 yards in quite a few different rifles/calibers.

Whats your accuracy loss like at what distances???

 

[rick smith]

I have scrubbed the plastic tip on concrete to shorten the OAL with no change in accuracy. I have never had a plastic tip deform during recoil and have shot them in rifles with plenty of recoil. I would seat them where they don't touch the mag box and work up another load. If your load is that sensitive, I wouldn't consider it a good load for the rifle.Rick.

 

[Savage99]

old # 7,

Your information is quite unusual. What bullet, rifle and cartridge are you shooting?

For instance I have found that plastic meplats do not deform any significant amount when fired in normal rifles where the bullet cannot move that far to the end of the box.

Another thing is that if your seating the cartridges shorter than the box whats holding them back from sliding forward with each shot? That might indicate a small low recoil cartridge.

????

 

[old #7]

I have this problem in My Rem 700 30-06 and in my NCR 280 AI.
165 AB's/BT's in the Rem and 154gr hornady Ib's in the 280AI.
the Rem has plenty of room in the mag box but the NCR is a different story.
I can't reach the lands in the NCR and still fit rounds in the mag box.
I am seating .020 smaller than the mag box and the tips are getting deformed from recoil. I am not even close to touching the lands. I have a couple of loads for the NCR using Nosler AB's but. I have been able to come close to matching the custom retical (designed around the 140AB @ 3150MV) with the Hornady 154 IB. The tips vary from bent, crushed to broken. I have been thinking of grinding the tip off but that will affect the BC.
I was wanting to use a heavier bullet for elk than the 140AB.
Nosler, make a .284 150gr AB please.

The 30-06 I had AI'd.
I seat around .007 of the lands but the mag box has lots of room left over. The tips are crushed a bit.

The accuracy change is from groups that touch @ 100yds to inside .875.

 

[rick smith]

There is no magic in having the bullet near the lands, it is just a starting point for seating there is more than one swet spot in most barrels. Some loaders use the manual length for a starting point. Loading concentric rounds should be the main concern along with the mag box length. I have shot ballistic tips/lead nose bullets in my 300 win mag/300wsm, 338/06, 7mmremmag, 375H&H and other harder recoiling rifles without any problem concerning the tip and accuracy. The tip has no effect on distance from the lands, it is not on the bearing surface. I have never seen the tip condition have any effect on group size out to 300yds. The weight of the bullet would not be effected by that small a loss. I would think it is in the load. If your rifle/load is that sensitive to such a small change, I would be looking at a different load. Clean barrel? Barrel temp.?
Have another known shooter shoot your groups or let someone else load your chamber without you knowing the tip condition and shoot some groups.Rick.

 

[Ol` Joe]

There is a interesting write-up in the November, Volume 43 handloader mag on this. "Does it Matter?" on pg 68 by Chub Eastman

 

[old #7]

There is no magic in having the bullet near the lands, it is just a starting point for seating there is more than one swet spot in most barrels. Some loaders use the manual length for a starting point. Loading concentric rounds should be the main concern along with the mag box length. I have shot ballistic tips/lead nose bullets in my 300 win mag/300wsm, 338/06, 7mmremmag, 375H&H and other harder recoiling rifles without any problem concerning the tip and accuracy. The tip has no effect on distance from the lands, it is not on the bearing surface. I have never seen the tip condition have any effect on group size out to 300yds. The weight of the bullet would not be effected by that small a loss. I would think it is in the load. If your rifle/load is that sensitive to such a small change, I would be looking at a different load. Clean barrel? Barrel temp.?
Have another known shooter shoot your groups or let someone else load your chamber without you knowing the tip condition and shoot some groups.Rick.

Rick.
I realize there is no magic in loading close to the lands.
I also realize that the tip is not the bearing surface and has no effect when it comes to oal length and contact with the lands.

Concentricity is the issue at hand. the tips are getting bent and broken.
once anything gets bent it can't be concenrtic.
I think I will try grinding off the tips and seating a bit deeper with the NCR.
You are absolutly correct on rifles having more than one sweet spot and I think that may solve my problem with the Rem '06
The NCR has a very tight mag box. I was a bit suprised how short it is especially when the rifle was built by a company that is built on reloading.

 

[FOTIS]

Unless you are shooting really long (400 yds +) ranges, the deformed tips won't make much, if any, difference.

JD338

Jim is as usual very correct.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

You can also take a toe-nail clipper a clip the tips a little bit!