E-Tip results on game

[Guest]

I wanted to take a minute to share my E-Tip field experience here on the handloading forum. Over the weekend I shot a good buck, about 135-145lbs estimated live weight, with a 130gr E-Tip (3400+ mv) from my 270Wby. I shot right through the deer's left shoulder, at about 175yds across a draw with a creekbed in the bottom. The buck dropped right in his tracks, like someone kicked his legs out from under him. I waited about 30min and climbed down from my stand, made my way down and back up his side of the ravine and when I got about 10yds from him, he thrashed and kicked his way down the draw and back up and out onto a point. I let him sit overnight (thanks to some sub-freezing temps, I knew he'd be fine) and went to get him this morning. I had to put a finishing shot in him this morning, as he was barely alive and trashing when I approached. That one went in high in his throat and exited his right ham, at the top back portion.

Interesting thing about these two very different shots, using the same rifle and handloads, is that both bullets expanded about the same - a little more than 2x original diameter - and the first one broke his shoulder, but was angled more than I thought, and didn't get enough of his lungs to finish him right there. The second shot ran full length of his body - about 4' - through his spine the whole way, nearly. Now, that's a lot of penetration, but it's also a great testament to how these E-Tips perform the same under very different circumstances.

I can say with surety that I'll keep using them for my magnum rifles.

 

[DrMike]

Devastating performance by a good bullet. Thanks for the report.

 

[Guest]

How far away were you from the deer the second shot? Did you recover any of the bullets?

Don

 

[Guest]

The second shot was from about 25yds, so MV would have been well over 3300fps at impact.

I did not recover either bullet. Both are wherever they landed on the far side of the deer, in the dirt, a tree, or wherever. I personally like exits, and don't concern myself with the bullet. In both cases, the entry was .277" (obviously) and the exit was just over 2x that diameter in my estimation. What was impressive was the near identical exit wounds, from both shots, despite the two shots being different in impact velocity. For reference, the impact velocity at 175yds was about 3000fps.

 

[Guest]

It all sounds good. Could you elaborate a little on meat damage, I know you broke the shoulder but just curious, as I need to get to the range to test my E-tip loads soon and I'm trying to collect as much info as possible.

Thanks,
Don

 

[Guest]

Don,

The shot through the shoulder didn't bloody the meat like a Ballistic Tip would. It left a pretty messed up fringe around the wound channel, but the damage didn't go anything near as far out from the channel as a BT would. The shot through the spine I can't speak to, as I delivered the carcass to the butcher with the hide still on it, so I didn't get much chance to look it over.

I'd have to say these bullets appear to perform like the Partition or the Speer Grand Slam in terms of meat damage. I was impressed. I'm going to revisit working up a load for the 180gr E-Tip for a 300Wby I'm working on again in the spring. I can't imagine a better recommendation than to say I'm going to try to develop loads for other magnum rifles. I'd probably not use these in slower cartridges, such as my 8x57, but only because the only E-Tip in .323" is the 180gr, and I'd only get about 2650-2700fps mv out of it. I'd have no problem trying the 150gr E-Tip in a 7mmRemMag or the same weight in a 30-06, if I could get over 2900fps out of it.

I hope that's helpful. Please pass along your results, as well.

 

[Guest]

Thank-You. I'm developing a load for my 300 Ultra Mag using the 180 E-tip as well. Depending on results I may elect to try the 168 grain bullet.

As tough as this bullet appears to be the expansion is different than others in it's class. I'm thinking, given the velocity I could get with my gun the 168 may afford better expansion, but that's just an opinion yet to be proven.

Got to give the 180 a good attempt first.Will let you know my results, should be at the range in a couple of weeks,weather permitting.


Don

 

[SJB358]

Great report on them. Sounds like a super load. That 130 at 3400 is deadly! Scotty

 

[JD338]

Great performance from the E-Tip for sure.
I know from my testing that they penetrate into tomorrow.

JD338

 

[elkeater2]

Don,

The shot through the shoulder didn't bloody the meat like a Ballistic Tip would. It left a pretty messed up fringe around the wound channel, but the damage didn't go anything near as far out from the channel as a BT would. The shot through the spine I can't speak to, as I delivered the carcass to the butcher with the hide still on it, so I didn't get much chance to look it over.

I'd have to say these bullets appear to perform like the Partition or the Speer Grand Slam in terms of meat damage. I was impressed. I'm going to revisit working up a load for the 180gr E-Tip for a 300Wby I'm working on again in the spring. I can't imagine a better recommendation than to say I'm going to try to develop loads for other magnum rifles. I'd probably not use these in slower cartridges, such as my 8x57, but only because the only E-Tip in .323" is the 180gr, and I'd only get about 2650-2700fps mv out of it. I'd have no problem trying the 150gr E-Tip in a 7mmRemMag or the same weight in a 30-06, if I could get over 2900fps out of it.

I hope that's helpful. Please pass along your results, as well.

I don't wanna come off as too negative or a flamer, so please be patient with me. :| I think that the experience here gives good info on how the e-tips work at pretty high velocity when striking flesh and bone at a couple different angles. They penetrate, for sure! So does a .416 Rigby solid point, or a 550 grain arrow :grin: So if the goal is to shoot magnums and get maximum penetration (and maybe shoot lead-free), then the e-tip is right up there.

I think I'm a pretty good shot, but especially on game in rushed and difficult conditions, I don't always put the bullet exactly where I planned on. Pretty much true for everyone, so I'm not faulting the bullet placement. What does bother me is a 175 yard shot through the shoulder, missing the lungs, still wasn't lethal, and I wonder if it wouldn't have been more lethal with a bullet that expands more and penetrates less. We can't know the real answer to that, of course. For me, a little more meat damage is worth it if it means a critter doesn't spend the night out wounded until finished off. How much meat damage was there from that spine shot?

It is nice to know what the e-tips can do.

 

[Guest]

I agree with elkeater2. I was a bothered by the fact given the shoulder shot put him down but the deer still got back on his feet and ran off. I'm sure, as you say, the angle of the shot didn't catch more of the vitals too and I agree. That 270 with the 130 E-tip going 3400fps is smoking hot! I'm sure as time goes on it will reflect more of it's capability.

Most of the seasoned hunters here probably have had experiences where the shot placement was not picture perfect with the outcome similar here. I have, even with lead bullets with greater expansion. Point is the deer were recovered. This still and always proves shot placement is so important. Ultimately we all want the results of DRT as do I but have been satisfied with lesser results providing I did my part and the bullet did not fail.

This is good dialog and a good report. Thanks for sharing this experience with e-tips.

Don

 

[Guest]

I understand your reactions, but I'll add a few comments about the situation.

First off, the first shot was not a bad shot. It was a shoulder shot with good anchoring capability, and good anchoring results. The problem was my decision not to follow it with a second shot when I saw the buck flopping his head around, which will not be a repeated mistake. I assumed he was "in the throes" and when he didn't flop around for 15-20min, I thought all was well. A second shot into the boiler would have finished that deer in the spot he first dropped. I made a poor decision in not taking that second shot while I had the opportunity, daylight, and vantage point. Again, lesson learned.

As for the penetration, I'm not particularly concerned about meat damage, per se, but my concern is the ability of the bullet I shoot to perform in the widest range of potential shots I might be called on to make afield. That means from various angles, with various windows of opportunity, from various distances. Meat damage is just an adjunct issue, and I'm happy I didn't ruin the shoulder completely, which might have happened with a lead core bullet with more explosive expansion. In my opinion, the E-Tip did exactly what I asked of it. At extremely close range, it mushroomed, held together, and exited. At medium range, it did the same. Pending a good 400yd shot to prove it will do what I believe it will at those distances and impact velocities, this is all I can ask of the bullet so far. The rest is up to me.

As for the question as to whether or not a lead core bullet with more expansion and less penetration would have worked better on the first shot, I somewhat doubt it. That shot clipped the front of the left lung. Obviously, not enough to finish the job quickly. (There is some conjecture as to whether or not the buck would have died quicker without the adrenalin shot of running when I approached.) I can't imagine an AccuBond having that much more violent an expansion rate so as to do more collateral damage and cause immediate death with that shot. And I can't imagine the Ballistic Tip holding up at the velocities I am shooting, which would be too far in the other direction. I imagine a Partition would have performed very similarly to the E-Tip, in that my prior experience with Partitions in 243Win & 270Win have demonstrated that pretty handily. Overall, it was a good shot, but it should have been immediately followed up with a second shot to finish the job. That's the lesson here.

Remember that I was using a 270 Weatherby Magnum, which I use because it's nice and flat out to distances I'll take a shot. So, bearing that in mind, I wanted to use a bullet stout enough to hold together at close ranges (which it did), yet one that would expand well at longer ranges (which it did). And, let's also remember that I might not have taken that particular shot if I did not have the confidence in the "flatness" of my trajectory, and the ability to get the bullet through a relatively small shot window.

 

[Guest]

Given your situation, I doubt that I would have shot a second time as well. It's just something that happens sometimes in Hunting. I don't believe you did anything wrong. Getting a little more lung would have benefited with a little better outcome, possibly recovering the Deer that same day. You have an awesome rifle with the Weatherby 270. Residing in Tennessee affords me the opportunity to shoot multiple Deer the same day. If the Deer goes down within sight I stay put not leaving my vantage point from the tree stand. I might even stay there a few hours depending on the ambient temperature that day.

Don