E-Tips - not impressed

[todbartell]

Loaded up some 150 gr Etips in my 280 Remington today for accuracy tests.





here's a pic of my first 3 groups with Hodgdon Hybrid 100V powder and a clean bore + 3 rounds of Hornady Interlock foulers.

first group on the left, 3"

second group in the middle, 3.5" (1st shot to the right, next 2 real close)

third group .8" (this got me excited and I figured the bullets just needed some fouling to begin to shoot awesome)




Fired one group with H4831sc

half inch three shot group @ 100 yards, I was VERY impressed at this point, figured the bullet would be a winner.


I had run out of ammo to test so I went back home and loaded some more of what I was shooting earlier, to re-test with a fouled bore which the load seemed to like!

here's my target

Left squares (top & bottom) shot first, started with a 1.3" group & then 2.9"

Middle squares (top & bottom) .8" & 1.6"

Right squares (top & bottom) shot last, 2.9" & 1.7"


Looks like my rifle has a 10 round window of good accuracy with these bullets before the accuracy goes downhill big time


Went home and cleaned the bore, here's what came out after only one hour of Wipeout foaming bore cleaner

I haven't seen fouling like that since I stopped using the original Barnes X bullets.


I gave the E-Tips a try, but I can't say I was very impressed. I think I will stick with the Barnes TSX

 

[todbartell]

...still cleaning...

The E-Tip’s® proven patent pending alloy provides less fouling, while exhibiting superior accuracy and consistent performance over traditional pure copper designs

I would challenge that claim! :lol: :shock:

 

[old #7]

I haven't shot any etips yet but I have shot tsx's.
I don't shoot solids. It's not required in my state and the AccuBond and BT's perform very well. Why spend the money for something I don't need.
As far as fouling goes both the solids and the jacketed bullets both leave copper in my barrels. I thouroughly clean all of my guns after every trip to the range. Typically I shoot 20 rounds through my rifles at a time.
My rifles are very accurate and I don't believe I have a rough bore but, I get blue patches every time I clean. More that one.
I start with hoppes to remove most of the powder residue then use a sweet's 7.62 followed by multiple dry patches and then top it off with a patch soaked in gun oil. I let the oil penetrate for a few hours then run a dry patch to remove excess oil.

 

[FOTIS]

Thanx for the report Todd.

I will be trying them soon in my 7mm mag and 300 rum.

 

[7 STW]

Well I'd suggest playing with the seating depth change powder or primers maybe the case...Could also be the rifle....grin


Just teasing you Tod..

 

[kraky]

Haven't tried em yet but have them loaded up in several .308 caliber rifles. First comment I'd have to make is the 150 has to be a terribly long bullet and maybe your gun just won't like them. And being long I can see the propensity for fouling. I really can't see the need for anything more than a 140/7mm in a bullet designed like this. The 150's I've loaded for my 300 win is longer than most any 165 bullet I have in inventory and the 180 etip is a virtual twin to a 200 ab and is longer than other 200 grainers.
As far as I'm concerned a 160/308 would be a great "do it all" bullet for most any gun but it would take some "marketing balls" or ....."marketing genius" to come out with a bullet that was out of norm in 308.

There have been more positive reports so far about the bullet and it's accuracy than negative so I still feel good about the potential in my 30 cals but can feel YOUR PAIN for what you are getting out of the 150/7mm.

 

[jtoews80]

Interesting, I find the Nosler bullets to leave a touch more copper in the barrel than other brands of bullets, but it seems relative to velocity. That is Nosler, in alot of the calibers I load run 100-150 FPS faster than other bullets, you pay for the added performance with a little fouling because that differance in jacket material is also what makes the extra velocity possible. Most of my rifles are overbore, this adds to the fouling.

I can understand your frusteration with a bullet you have to reduce to the mid charge, that doesn't seem to shoot and costs alot. I personally like my Accubonds, Will try them on game this year, to date the NBT worked OK, but frag'd bad @ 3250FPS.

CC

 

[rick smith]

Not unusual for a rifle not to like a certain bullet. I quit with any Barnes due to the poor accuracy and fouling. One rifle with one bullet doesn't prove anything.Rick.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

My rifle doesn't like barnes either, but many people swear by them.
In my experience, the fouling from nosler bullets seems to increase a good bit once you get over 3000 fps. I use lots of Barnes CR10 everytime I clean.

Todd, you seem to know what you are doing, but I just got to ask. How's the bedding in your rifle?

Also some powder bullet combinations just don't work. In the Barnes manuel it say, if our bullets don't work with a given powder, change powders. Don't waste good copper trying to find the right load, just change powders.

Persoanlly, I'd try a couple more powders, and if it didn't perform, I'd change bullets in that rifle.

 

[todbartell]

bedding should be fine, I just did it this spring and the rifle will shoot 3/4" average with 150 grain Barnes TSX over RL25 (4 groups). I guess it's the curious side of me to try the latest and greatest bullets...

back to Barnes I go

 

[R Flowers]

I realize that I am a little late commenting on this, but Barnes is right about trying other powders with monolithic bullets.

I am forced to try some monolithics due to the latest California fiasco. I live where we can no longer use bullets containing lead for big game, coyotes, ground squirrels, etc.

I tried the Barnes TSX in several rifles with mixed results. My rifles chambered for 25-06, 7mm Wby Mag, 300 Wby Mag, and 300 WSM shot the Barnes quite well with the same powders I had been using with Nosler Partitions.

My 7-08 Remington mountain rifle shot the Barnes TSX like crap! This surprising little rifle will shoot any of the Nosler 140 grain offerings into an inch if I do my part. I tried H 4350, IMR 4350, Varget, IMR 4895, etc. I was getting groups of over two inches! On a lark I tried IMR 4064 and the first group I shot was 0.5 inches. I figured it was a fluke so I loaded some more. The next two groups were both 0.7 inches. Go figure.

Likewise, my 270 WSM shoots Nosler Partitions quite well. (The last three groups I shot with it measured 0.64, 0.65, and 0.63 inches.) When I tried the Barnes TSX with the same powder (RL 22), I got groups around two inches. I tried changing powder burning rates, as in IMR 4350, and was rewarded with nice round 3/4 inch groups.

I also tried the Nosler E-Tip in the 270 WSM. My starting load with RL 22 did not even hit the paper! The next charge up shot a 3.9 inch group and the next increase in powder shot a group of 3.5 inches. Pretty dissapointing, to be sure. Again, I tried IMR 4350, and things improved a bunch, averaging an even inch with the 130 E-Tip.

So, if you are fighting to get a monolithic bullet to shoot for you try a different powder.

 

[clearwater]

R flowers-

I looks like you used a slighty faster powder each time.

Do you suppose a faster powder is needed to make the harder
solide bullet
swell (obturate) in the grooves?

 

[R Flowers]

I am not sure what the change in powder burning rate accomplished. No idea if the bullets swage up better or if the barrel just vibrates at a different rate.

I actually saw this same effect with 180 Nosler Partitions in a 300 Win Mag.
I load shells for a buddy and his rifle shoots best with RL 22. His brother was so impressed he went and purchased an identical rifle and scope. I tried to work up loads for it and found it shot poorly with RL 22. I tried H 4831, IMR 4831, IMR 7828, and H 4350 with much the same results. I tried IMR 4350 and it shot under an inch with no problem.

Looks like I should just shoot IMR 4350, doesn't it?

Actually, I like to experiment, seldom just try one powder in a new rifle.