Elk rifle

[Jeff Olsen]

All right... sorry for the bandwidth... I tried copying it two different ways here...

All this for my ugly mug and mediocre blacktail! :-/

-jeff



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/quote]

 

[MattStevens]

Jeff,

You are right, that is a very typical black tail. I hunt black tail in Northern Calif. In the area I hunt I have found a very interesting trend. On the north side of this particular mountain the bucks have large wide antlers. On the south side of the same mountain they tend to look very similiar to yours, without much exception not withstanding youthfull bucks. I suppose it's partly due to range patterns for specific herds and genetics and a bit of habitat quality. Nonetheless, nice buck. I always say, when hunting in California any buck is a nice buck!

Matt

 

[Jeff Olsen]

Jeff,

You are right, that is a very typical black tail. I hunt black tail in Northern Calif. In the area I hunt I have found a very interesting trend. On the north side of this particular mountain the bucks have large wide antlers. On the south side of the same mountain they tend to look very similiar to yours, without much exception not withstanding youthfull bucks. I suppose it's partly due to range patterns for specific herds and genetics and a bit of habitat quality. Nonetheless, nice buck. I always say, when hunting in California any buck is a nice buck!

Matt

In Oregon, the overall success rate for a western Oregon blacktail tag is around 15%... so you take what you can get! This one made me happy on many levels... first, he's a mature animal... second, I got him on public land (I also have some primo private land I hunt but I do a National Forest hunt opening weekend, usually).... finally, the way it played out when I got him was one of those things that, in hindsight, was something I would never have pulled off earlier in my "career" as a hunter. I was still-hunting very slowly up an old closed-off logging road, glassing in every direction every few steps, textbook blacktail still-hunting; caught a flicker of movement through the vegetative screen about 100 yards out, had to move about 15 yards to get a cleaner look, determined it was a deer feeding, then had to wait several minutes to determine it was a shooter, then had to wait another couple minutes for an offhand shot, then had to sneak the bullet (180-gn AccuBond) through a little window in the greenery. It was, of course, raining and I was, of course, fighting buck fever. I won't say it was in "experts only" kill, but I will say that most guys I know wouldn't have pulled the whole sequence off! Most of them, and hell ME most of the time, wouldn't have caught the first movement at all and would have just heard a deer bouncing away in the jungle 15 minutes later when he spooked...

I'll see if I can't post the picture of my best blacktail; he's a very nice blacktail buck. It will be a scan of a film-camera photo that is of marginal quality, but it's a great deer and a fun story. I'm not in it. I posted this one mostly because you and Brad were posting photo's of your bad selves and this is my only real picture of me with a deer! Usually, I'm hunting alone and by the time I get them home, they are gutted and have been dragged back to the truck and just are not that photogenic... nor am I at that point!

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

OK, here's my best blacktail buck. He was another great hunt. I was on private land at the bottom of a ridge and while glassing the top of the ridge, as best I could from below, I see this large rack bobbing along up there! I'd screwed up earlier in the day, on a different deer, by being too passive, so I decided to go for it and vectored sidehill up towards where I thought he was headed. Luckily, a squall came through and it was quite windy and rainy for about 10 minutes, which no doubt helped cover me; it was impossible to move quietly. When I got where I was going, I started glassing again and sure as shit, there he was feeding on acorns beneath a little oak tree about 90 yards away, but I had to wait several minutes before i had a clean shot. At the shot, he took off... and off... and off. I was very lucky to find this deer. The 150-gn Partition from my 7mm-08 traversed diagonally through both lungs, going in behind one shoulder and coming out in front of the other, but he still ran over hill and dale for over 200 yards. It was raining and I couldn't find any blood trail; I felt like crying. But, manfully, I didn't! Finally, just before dark and still nary a drop of blood to be found, I saw a suspicious white patch in my binoc's, like an old stump, in a stand of little firs. That was his butt. And then I had the most heinous drag from hell BACK over hill and dale and over a fence to get him out of there!

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

...and finally, here's one of my elk rifles. Marlin 45/70 Guide Gun stoked with 300-gn Partitions. Later on this incredibly snowy day, I missed a spike elk with that very rifle. He was bleeding for whatever reason and I trailed the blood for miles hoping he'd bed down, which he did. I decided to take the scope off the rifle because I figured when he did jump up, things would happen fast, which they did EXCEPT the sumbitch stopped behind a big log, probably 85 yards away, with only the top of his head and his horns sticking up. I had several seconds to take the shot, but it was offhand, I was very winded, I was excited and shooting buckhorn sights and I shot right over the top of his head. In hindsight, I chould have shot right through the 8" of snow on the log!! Aaaargh. Or, also in hindsight, the shot was a gimmee with ANY of my "normal", scoped rifles. Aaaaarg!!

-jeff

 

[MattStevens]

Jeff,

That's a good looking black tail buck. I'ts great how we remember each deer like it just happened; I know I do. It's what keeps us going back year after year.

I've been very fortunate to get some very nice bucks over the years. Mostly it's just a matter of being out there where others are too lazy to go and a lot of good fortune. Thanks for the photos, I always enjoy seeing photos of DIY hunts with common folk like myself. Maybe one day I will have the dollars to go on one of those fancy guilded hunts, but for now I'll keep doing it the hard way. I often watch Eastman videos. Mike and his spoiled son Guy like to say, "hunting is still good out West, but you need to find a quality outfitter." I say BS, spoiled semi rich kid.....

Cheers.

 

[Greg Nolan]

I just had to put in my 2 penny's worth on this. I have used a 338 Win mag and the 300 Wby was my alternate that got used a lot. I'v killed a few elk with both. I'd give the edge to the 338 for penetration and consistantcy. It doesn't have to expand to get to 338 cal. The extra weight of the 225 A/B works with a good slap to shock the animal. That said , the 300wby is more accurate and flatter shooting and carries more energy further. It' drawback is the lighter smaller bullet at long range won't deliver the penetration if it hits a heavy shoulder bone or has to quarter though the stomach. The A/B has improved this situation greatly so the ranges I'm speaking of would be beyond 400 yds for the 300wby.
I'v upgraded to 338 and 375RUMs and eliminated the problems. Except of course for the RECOIL!!

 

[TBASTIAN]

When Nosler decided to partner with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, by giving a certain percentage of their proceeds to the Foundation for elk habitat conservation, their first bullet into the program was the 210 grain, .338 Caliber, Partition.

That has to speak for itself! I own two .338 Win Mag's that I use exclusively for elk hunting, and I wouldn't trade them for any other caliber made. From hunting the breaks of Eastern Oregon, to the dense cover of the Coast and Cascade ranges, this caliber and bullet are perfect!

Other Partition bullets that wear the Nosler/RMEF logos are the: 160 grain, .284 caliber; 180 grain, .30 caliber; and the recently added 200 grain, .323 caliber.

Good hunting!
-TB

 

[Jeff Olsen]

When Nosler decided to partner with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, by giving a certain percentage of their proceeds to the Foundation for elk habitat conservation, their first bullet into the program was the 210 grain, .338 Caliber, Partition.

That has to speak for itself! I own two .338 Win Mag's that I use exclusively for elk hunting, and I wouldn't trade them for any other caliber made. From hunting the breaks of Eastern Oregon, to the dense cover of the Coast and Cascade ranges, this caliber and bullet are perfect!

-TB

TB,

Hello from the Egene area (gooooooo Ducks!) Actually, I'm about as close to you as to Eugene but I'm in the gravitational pull of Eugene, not Corvallis...

Anyway, my main elk rifle these days is also a .338, a M700 XCR. However, I prefer the 225-gn bullet. Couple guys in my camp use 250's, though that seems a bit much even for elk.

I'm sure the 210 works just dandy- that's not my point- I was just wondering what kind of penetration you see with them on elk from a 338 Win Mag?

I'll have to buy some and try 'em, see how they shoot in my rifle sometime.

-jeff

 

[358WINMAN]

I would take my Ruger No 1B in .338 Win Mag, load it with 225 grain AB, TSX or Partition and be on my way to hunt elk in any manner that presents itself. I'd pass on the 500 yd shots and try to shoot from 350 or less.
It seems that many hunters rely only on their rifles to reach WAAAAAAAY out and hopefully make a clean kill! What about your stalking skills and stealthy approach to close the distance to a range that is truly a managable shot for 90% of the hunters out there, myself included!!!

Not too many hunters are consistantly capable of clean kills at 500 yds or more. My longest shot was at an antelope in Montana at 310 yds which I accomplished with one shot. I practiced at a farm where I hunt for weeks in advance. I shot from 100 to 400 yds. Let me tell you, 400 yds is a LOOOOOOONG shot! I became proficient becuase of practice. Haven't shot that far in years. Would have to practice all over again to make it count!

 

[Brad]

I'd pass on the 500 yd shots and try to shoot from 350 or less.
It seems that many hunters rely only on their rifles to reach WAAAAAAAY out and hopefully make a clean kill! What about your stalking skills and stealthy approach to close the distance to a range that is truly a managable shot for 90% of the hunters out there, myself included!!!

Not too many hunters are consistantly capable of clean kills at 500 yds or more. My longest shot was at an antelope in Montana at 310 yds which I accomplished with one shot. I practiced at a farm where I hunt for weeks in advance. I shot from 100 to 400 yds. Let me tell you, 400 yds is a LOOOOOOONG shot! I became proficient becuase of practice. Haven't shot that far in years. Would have to practice all over again to make it count!

I don't "try" shots a 500 yards... I practice at that range and make the shot. Sometimes it's just not possible to get closer. If the wind is favorable and you have the time, a 500 yard shot is easy for the prepared.

When the trigger is pressed all "hunting" ceases and the shooting begins whether it's 50 or 500 yards. Frankly, I've seen more bungled shots up-close in the timber than out at range by a practiced rifleman.

400 yards is NOT a long shot... Get a LRF, a scope to adjust for range (either turrets or dots) and practice. An elks vitals are a big freaking target at 500 yards.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

"400 yards is NOT a long shot... Get a LRF, a scope to adjust for range (either turrets or dots) and practice. An elks vitals are a big freaking target at 500 yards."

Cant argue about the truth!!!

 

[MattStevens]

Come-on fellas, 400 yards IS a long shot and it don't matter what your point of reference is. A more accurate statement would be, "Yes, 400 yards is a long shot, but can be made with consistency if practiced with prevailing conditions). I have do doubt that some of you, (not all) are practiced, capable and equiped with the right equipment, which can stretch you out that far....... Yes, unequivocally a GOOD rifleman.

 

[Brad]

Matt, your post and the one I responded to only reinforce my point that perspective is what determines what a "long shot" is.

To many 400 yards is litterally a chip shot... I'm not exagerating. I shoot out to 850 yards fairly regularly. I use a rangefinder and dots. Hitting within 600 yards just isn't that big a deal if you've got the right setup and the discipline to NOT shoot if you're rushed or the wind is unfavorable.

BUT, actually shooting at range instills that discipline so really it's a moot point... An elk at 400 yards, for me, is a chip shot.

 

[MattStevens]

Brad,
I have no doubt that you have worked on your skills and you are more acomplished than most. Some folks think they can do it because you can do it and that would make them wrong. You can because you have the proper equipment and you practice in various prevailing conditions and distances.

Believe it or not, many "hunters" believe if they can see it in thier optics they can shoot it. Like you, one must put the time in and invest in the proper equipment.

Matt

 

[Brad]

Would add, I'm totally confident I can take anyone used to a HP rifle and get them hitting at 600 yards in no time... it's not rocket science nor for "gifted" riflemen... maybe some are "gifted" but for most of us it's just a matter of taking the time to learn. Most don't so 400 yards becomes a looong shot.

 

[MattStevens]

Yep, I would agree. The only problem is most people are wrapped up with thier busy lives and only get out one, maybe two times prior to season and that's it.

 

[358WINMAN]

Guys, I'm not trying to create an arguement for right or wrong with my statement. My point is that those of you who practice regularly at 600 yds or more with the very best of technical equipment to assist you in your shooting are doing so under relaxed conditions with time on your side. The range never puts pressure on you. You shoot when you feel all is right and ready.
Now, lets take the hunter who just climbed up a ridge or trotted down a ridge to get set up at the edge of an open meadow and the guide is whispering to shoot becuase thats the best bull he's gonna see all week and he's about to disappear into the timber. The heart rate is up from running or trotting or climbing, etc. The breathing more than likely is labored from the strenuous physical activity of getting to the spot. Now you've gotta' settle your crosshairs on the vitals, think about bullet drop after the guide gives you his estimate or lasered yradage, readjust your crosshairs for the distance, let out some breath and squeeze? The heart rate alone has your crosshairs jumping up and down on your target. The more magnification you have, the worse the scope dances. Did we have time to get set up for the bipod or shooting sticks? Maybe not. Shooting off your knees perhaps or over your backpack hastily thrown on the ground below you. These are real elk conditions. Perhaps at some point during a still hunt or stalk, everything comes together and the elk is feeding with head down, slightly quartering away, the wind is right and you've got all the time to set up for the 500-600 yard shot. Kudos to the man who does this consistantly, but in my opinion, luck plays a role in this to get all the variables lined up just right.
I'd really like to know just how many guys and how many times in real hunting scenarios make 500+ yard shots regularly???

 

[Bigwheels]

I've only done it once.But all the practice I do all year long got me prepaired for it.Two shots @ 516 yds for the 6 X 7 Bull,I waited 6 years for.You have to know your rifle,& your abillity beyond question.I saw him.I knew I could make the shot,& I did.If I had doubt.I also had the disipline to not shoot. I agree that MOST people can't,& shouldn't try a shot like that.My beef is with the people that do it anyway,when they don't have the skills.I have too much respect for the animals I hunt to do otherwise.

 

[MattStevens]

338Winman & Big Wheels,

You are both absolutly right. I have practiced at extended distances and I am consitent at the range. I have a generally extensive background, (both military and police) in long range rifle skills. The farthest I have taken an animal is approximately, give or take about 360 yards. I think long range shooting is a BAD idea most all the time.

I have read many posts here and I think I have a pretty good BS filter. Brad from Bozeman Mt., is one of those guys who practices all the time, has the right equipment and is most likely in excellent physical, (hiking shape). I have little doubt that he can do what he says. Human nature dictates, what's easy for one person may cause that person to believe it should be easy for the next and that's not the case. I make every effort possible not to shoot much beyond 300 yards. Now, it's the last day of the season, the Bull is across the canyon and the distance is greater than 350 yards, I'm going to set-up and squeeze that round off. I suppose you might call that last day of the season despiration.

I don't disagree with a word either of you wrote.