Enough Gun

[Ryan46]

I have a question for some of you guys who live & hunt in the great northwest. In particular the areas where moose, grizzly and brown bears roam. As you can see under my posting name, the place where I live is a long way from where these animals roam. I watch just about every show on t.v. that shows the Alaskan landscape. This is because it is the most beautiful scenery I have ever laid my eyes on. I have wanted to hunt there ever since I started hunting. I even had a hunt planned for Alaska but it fell through.
When reading about hunting the animals mentioned above or watching a hunting program all the guided hunters carried rifles that were “big boomers” to harvest their big game animals. The cartridges went from .338mag all the way to .416.
Now here is the part that puzzles me. While watching the “reality shows” about Alaska the people who actually live there and hunt for meat and some who have to kill to protect their livestock or family use .30-30’s, .308’s, .30-06’s, 7-08’s, and .45-70’s. I think I have only seen one man use a .300mag Win. These citizens of Alaska seem to think they are not under gunned using these calibers for their intended purpose.
So, why do the hunters on guided hunts need the big boomers? Someone please enlighten me because I am puzzled by this.

Happy Shooting
Ryan 46

 

[PJGunner]

"So, why do the hunters on guided hunts need the big boomers? Someone please enlighten me because I am puzzled by this."

Never ever have had the opportunity to do an Alaskan hunt so this more conjecture than anything else.
Those who live there are probably not in much of a hurry as they live there and can more or less choose their shot. The dude from the lower 48 has only a limited time so either decides to take a "cannon" or is advised to do so by the outfitter. I do a guided elk hunt of sorts in New Mexico that is only three days in length. It's just a cull hunt for cow elk but I do take and use a .35 Whelen. I'm not worried about getting a shot as there are lots of elk on that ranch but shots are at very spooky animals and the Whelen so far has anchored them on the spot. Some may require a finishing shot but they ain't going anywhere.
In fact the ranch I hunt frowns on the .270 but allows it. They prefer .280 Rem. or larger. Let's face it. If the dude uses something "big" enough and puts the bullet in the right place, the guide doesn't have to do much if any tracking. That's especially cool if the game hunted is a big old mean Grizzly Bear.
Should I ever get the cance to do an Alaskan hunt, The two rifles I would take would be my .35 Whelen and my .375 Taylor as back up gun. Probably would do just as good packing a 30-06. :roll: :lol:
Paul B.

 

[Vince]

Well said, Paul.

 

[joelkdouglas]

If I ever hunt in Alaska, I will be toting a 30-06. IMHO if you can't kill something in NA with a 30-06 that "something" should probably get to live.

FWIW Phil Shoemaker hunts Alaska brown bears with a 30-06 and 220 Partitions.

 

[ColColt]

I'll never get to an Alaskan hunt but and if I did I'd take two rifles, a 270 Winchester and a 375 H&H for the big brownies.

 

[JD338]

Shot placement is king. With the cost invested in out of state tags and travel, I would opt for more horse power.

JD338

 

[LD375]

Shot placement is king. With the cost invested in out of state tags and travel, I would opt for more horse power.

JD338

Ditto Jim

 

[DrMike]

Paul has provided a fine summary of the situation. Some of those going on guided hunts buy a new rifle just for the hunt. It is possible they have bought way more gun than they can handle well. For others, it is a good excuse to pick up something they've always wanted but couldn't justify. For people living with big animals, they realise that shot placement (as JD338 said) is king. A hole through the lungs will stop about anything that walks this earth. Unfortunately, perfect shot placement isn't always possible. In such cases, penetration to the vitals is essential. I would rather see someone carrying a 30-06 or a 308 that they can shoot well than see them carrying a 375 Ruger that intimidates them.

 

[Thebear_78]

I think you should use whatever you can shoot well out of a sub 8 pound rifle. Since they don't make a lot of magnums in reasonable hunting weights a lot of people go with 270, 7mm mag, and 3006.


Most production guns in 300 mag and above are heavy long barreled rifles that you just don't want to carry around all day. They are sendero type rifles at home in a deer blind but become an anchor when hunting in alaska.

Almost all of our hunting is mobile, and long stalks are the norm. Experience with the game also makes us more comfortable using "smaller" guns. Watch 6-8 moose or bears die without incident and guns get smaller to get lighter.

I hunt primarily with a 300 RUM. Our rangs can stretch out pretty quick and all the horsepower you can handle can come in handy. My rifle weighs in at 7lbs 11oz. And is as heavy as I would want one. I'm havering a lightweight 270 built that I hope comes in below 6 pounds scoped and twisted to use the 150gr lr accubonds.

Light rifles and good bullets are the rule I hunt by. That said when you facing 600-800 pounds of bear at close range the nearer to 1" the hole in the end of your barrel is the better you feel. I got charged two years ago and my 375 rum (7 lbs 10 oz, twin rums) felt puny at the time.

 

[Oldtrader3]

If I had just paid $30 K for a Kodiak hunt, the only one in my life. You can bet that I would be shooting a .375 H&H for that 5-10 seconds that All that money is on the line. You are not guaranteed a bear for all that money, just a reasonable change for a shot at one.

I have seen Creek Indians in Northern Quebec shoot moose with a .32-20 but not me! I would use a .30-06 minimum!

 

[Dwh7271]

Great question and as usual on this forum, great answers.
Interesting the title of your post as a writer named Ruark had a book titled "Use Enough Gun" which was basically a group of segments of his books under one book title. FWIW, if you haven't read "Horn of the Hunter" by Ruark about Africa I would recommend it. Fun to read.
I mention that because although I am entranced by little fast numbers in rifles, when I was travelling a bit to hunt I tended to "overgun" due to exactly what Paul and the others mentioned. I am convinced that there really isn't such a thing (without going crazy about it) as too much gun in that situation on those hunts. Someone here I believe has a signature line about little guns always being little guns but big guns can be loaded to little gun levels or some such. Good point there.
I'm also with the poster that said you drop 20-30k on a one time hunt, you need enough gun to wipe away any doubt.
thebear posts some cool pics and hunt descriptions and being there is invaluable as to advice.
Excuse the rambling post, but if I were going I would want something I could carry that I could shoot accurately that would kill whatever I was hunting decisively.

 

[sask boy]

I agreed that having enough gun is something that should be looked at quite closely but I am in agreement that shot place is far more important.
Knowing your capabilities and the capabilities of your rifle make for a much more successful hunt !


Blessings,
Dan

 

[Ryan46]

Hey guys I really appreciate your answers to my question and they tell me a lot about what I suspected might be the reason. I did not put this into my op, but I became suspicious when one day at the s. g. store where I buy my reloading supplies. There inside the front door is a polar bear mount. The bear is in a two legged standing position and appears to be about six and a half to seven feet tall. As I walked around looking at this bear mount I looked at the width of his shoulders which were quite narrow. I started thinking out loud to my eldest son that I believe that my .30-06 firing 180gr Accubonds in my handloads would have no trouble going completely through that bear. After rolling this around in my head is what caused my o p. I will say that bear had the biggest feet I have ever seen on an animal. Again thank yall very much & God bless.

Happy Shooting

Ryan46

 

[Thebear_78]

I know a guy who has killed 4 polar bear with a 22-250. All with 55gr sp green and yellow box remington ammo. That being said riding around on snow machine following red drops and poking holes in a bear from a few hundred yards is a far cry from facing a big brownie in close cover.

The question isn't can it kill it under hunting conditions, I doubt there is an animal on earth that you can't take cleanly with a well loaded 30/06. When you pick your shot there isn't really that much distance across the chest of any big game. The bottom of a moose chest where the heart sits is 10-12" across, the body tapers to accommodate the thick heavily muscled shoulders and legs. Even a varmint cartridge applied there would take it out.

I've shot completely thru a bull moose from 2" left of its vent out the center of its chest at 200 yards, were talking 5+ feet of moose including a hundred pound sack of compressed, wet grass with my 300 rum with 168 Barnes tsx. I don't think your 06 would pull that off, I've seen a lot of 180-200 gr nosler partitions stopped short by shoulders and spine out of 300 win mag. Never lost a moose over it but makes me feel better about always getting an exit with my Barnes load.

I'm not saying you need a magnum, just that if you can handle it more power never hurts. Also there is a difference between the shots you can pull off when you step down the power level.

 

[Guy Miner]

Don't ask me... I used a 300 gr soft point .375 H&H on a rockchuck... :grin:

 

[sask boy]

Guy, I think that the rock chucks in your neck of the woods are a lot tougher as they are the Mountain variety :wink:!!

Blessings,
Dan

 

[DrMike]

Don't ask me... I used a 300 gr soft point .375 H&H on a rockchuck... :grin:

Well, after all, it was a rockchuck! Man, you have to use some mass of those critters!

 

[ColColt]

Don't ask me... I used a 300 gr soft point .375 H&H on a rockchuck...

Elmer Keith would give a big thumbs up on that one. :grin:

 

[Guy Miner]

My apologies to the OP. Had to mention the rockchuck/.375 incident... :mrgreen:

I dunno much about hunting moose or grizzly as I've never done so.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

Yeah, but sabretooth rockchucks are no problem for you! :shock: I believe the OP has received a pretty good answer. We've gotta' have some fun once in a while. :grin: