Falling Block and 505 gibbs

[Thankful Otter]

It is the time of year when my grandfather looks at gun making and/or finding of rifles he is interested in owning. he cant get to his cabin and the holidays are over, so for him it is time to work on his next project, or two

He ask Aleena for a list of good falling block rifle makers and she gave him a list of ten that she thought would do a good job for him. He has narrowed it down to five

Dakota and Ruger in the States, Hagn in Canada, Hartman and Weiss in Germany, and Soroka in New Zealand.

He feels Dakota and Ruger would be the easiest, Hagn in Canada allows him to stay close to home, and he has a gun from H & W in Germany that has worked well for him for many years. Soroka in New Zealand interests him as he could spend time with them and Aleena said he good possibly hunt New Zealand with one of their loaner rifles before he decides.

His other project is to find an old 505 Gibbs that he likes.

My question to you fellows is what is your favorite falling block manufacturer ( caliber still under consideration ) and what is or was your favorite 505 gibbs gun

 

[DrMike]

Martini and Hagn have a first rate product. Ralf Martini is a gentleman and an excellent craftsman. He is well worth looking to for a quality product.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have owned a couple of Ruger Number Ones, one of which for several years and hunted with it. The Rugers are very reliable and accurate platforms for single shot rifles. The Dakota and Hagn actions are very nice and I would be most pleased with either. Plus, H&W uses the Hagn action in their single shots which if he is going to go with them, this sort of makes the decision. I am not familiar with the Saroka action although they remind me of the Farquarson English action of old and appear to be very high quality. I do not think that he can make a bad choice in this bunch. It all comes down to his preferences on safeties, falling block design, mechanism kinetics and suitability for the Gibbs cartridge which has a large (.640) footprint for the extractor.

 

[HomerOz]

G'Day All,

Yukon Huntress, I see you are aware of www.sorokarifle.com but I thought they had relocated from NZ to the USA?
Anyway, I can see you have the quality falling block rifle makers, pretty well covered!

Please I hope you don't think I'm bad mouthing the stunning Dakota Model 10 but are you able to dry fire these rifles (without a Snap Cap), and not break the firing pin?
I have heard that if you dry fire these rifles on an empty chamber, the end of the firing pin breaks off and rattles down the barrel???

Doh!
Homer

 

[Thankful Otter]

Dr. Mike, Charlie, Homer----Thank you

Homer. He said to tell you that you are correct, it can be a possible problem. there is a way to basically half cock the rifle and dry fire it without a problem and one can use a Snap Cap but he dont like them because of possible moisture retention in the barrel. Also Sorokar now has an outlet in the USA, but he is still in NZ

Charlie. I think I mis lead you. He is looking to buy a new falling block rifle, but the caliber is yet to be determined, but it will not be a 505 gibbs. His second project is looking for an old 505 gibbs, not to have one made

 

[SJB358]

I really dig the Winchester High and Low Walls. I know they aren't as common as the Ruger/Farquarson rifles, but being a Winchester nut, they keep my eye!

Good luck with the build. Sounds like an awesome rifle.

As for the 505 Gibb's, that has gotta be a truly awesome hammer. Can't imagine that kinda HP at my fingers..

 

[OU812]

I would love to shoot a 505 Gibbs twice just in case I screwed it up the first time.

 

[Oldtrader3]

My fault Cheyenne, I mentally combined the projects without reading the post carefully. In any case, the single shot should be great project and finding a decent .505 Gibbs is not impossible but challenging.

 

[muleman]

I've always liked the Winchester Highwalls a whole lot. I'd say it would depend on the type of gun he wanted to build. I'd go with the Winchester if I was building a modern caliber and/or go with a Shilo Sharps if it were to be a black powder gun 45-90 or 45-110 would be really cool!

Scott

 

[Thankful Otter]

We just left him and we now know what it wont be. He decided not to go with a Winchester Highwall as he already has one and wants something different, but he does like them. , Same with the H & W, since he already has a gun made by them ( not a falling block however ) he would rather get his next one from someone new, and he does not feel that Soroka has made enough guns in order to comfortably evaluate them. But he has a keen interest in the Hagn made in Canada as well as the Dakota. The Ruger never came up ???

This is what I think is going to happen. He will order a Dakota 10 in a 300 H & H just to shut me up, or maybe I am just hoping. And then order a 7 x 57 from Hagn as he wants a light weight easy to carry and handle mountain rifle for sheep and goats. BUT I am just guessing from what I heard tonight. I did print out everyones responses and showed them to him, except Muleman, whose post came after we saw him tonight He thanks you and I thank you for your input

 

[257 Ackley]

Late to the party, but I would donate body parts for a Dakota 10...probably not worth as much as a few years ago, but they still function :wink: . I like my #1, but the 10 is true art!

 

[Oldtrader3]

Either single shot rifle, the Hagn or the Dakota Model 10, would certainly work. Both makers have wonderfully crafted firearms. I don't think that your grandfather can go wrong either way. The Dakota 10's really stoke me for looks and function. A .300 H&H in a Dakota 10 for you Cheyenne would be a wonderful firearm to own and a 7x57 for a light rifle for your grandfather would be two classic single shots. Whatever he decides, there is no bad choice here.

 

[PJGunner]

"Please I hope you don't think I'm bad mouthing the stunning Dakota Model 10 but are you able to dry fire these rifles (without a Snap Cap), and not break the firing pin?
I have heard that if you dry fire these rifles on an empty chamber, the end of the firing pin breaks off and rattles down the barrel???"

I've only seen one dakota M10 in the flesh and dammit, I want one. The one I saw was in .270 Win. and they guy that owned did say they should not be dry fired withough a snap cap.
My only experiences with falling block rifles is with my Ruger #1's and a Browning B85. The B85 is very accurate but working with the hammer while it "hides" under a scope can be a bit daunting on a hunt with cold fingers or gloves.

One thing I've found on Rugers is they do not do a very good job of sealing the wood on the inside. That goes for the #1 as well as the M77s. On one elk hunt up in the John Day area of oregon, I was on an elk hunt with a Ruger #1B in .300 Win. Mag., a very accurate rifle. I got cought in a heavy rain storm that soaaked me and the gun. We never saw a legal bull. One the way home we stopped at a ranch belonging to friends for a bit of pheasant hunting. The ranch is also a hunting preserve and these were set out birds. e saw a coyote running off with a pheasant in his mouth so I grabbed my .300 which was he only rifle in the truck and after three shots with no one seeing where the bullets hit I quit wasting ammo. Now I knew the rifle hadn't been dropped of banged about so I could not figure out how I could have missed that coyote. I was an asy going away shot. When I got home back in Tucson, I took the rifle to the range to see how far it was off. I couldn't even hit the target backer at 100 yards and based on the hits on the berm, the rifle was shooting at least 6 feet high. On close inspection by myself and my gunsmith, we determined that during that rainstorm that rifle's forearm had soaked up enough water to affect the point of impact. I'd take the gun out every once in a while to the range but it was several years before it shot to point of aim. It finally dried out in Arizona's dry climate. I do love my Ruger #1's but if it looks like rain, they stay home. The few M77's I have have synthetic stocks, we all except one and I'll get around to fixing that sometime down the road.
Seriously though, pull a #1 or M77 out of the stock. There is no sealing at all.Just the overspary of whatever stain they use on the wood.
Paul B.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have had the same thing happen with both my Number One and my Model 77 Ruger bolt action. As you are aware, we have some of the rainiest weather here in Washington. On one deer hunting weekend here, my .308 Number One bleached almost white and swelled quite a bit. So I can relate to what you are saying about the finish on Ruger rifles. I just assumed that they had fixed this problem years ago?

 

[Thankful Otter]

PjGunner and Charlie

As previously mentioned in another thread, my grandfather is very set in his ways (-: He refuses to own a gun without a walnut stock and the time and effort he puts into caring for these stocks/rifles are close to eccentric (-;

But the wood stock in general and the one on the Ruger was discussed this a.m. and he said that he agrees with you gentleman completely about the wood stock on the Ruger and that was one of the reasons Ruger was omitted from his final choice, plus the fact that he already has one and wants something different from a different manufacturer. This is why Winchester and H & W was also omitted from his final choice--he already has a rifle from H & W and a Winchester High Wall. I did suggest that the intelligent thing for him to do was to get one from each---he just smiled and said "I bet you do" Dr. Mike, he agrees with your assessment of Mr. Martini

 

[Oldtrader3]

Cheyenne, I do not know what else we can provide for your grandfather. I myself only own 3 custom rifles of which, one was built for me from a barrelled action and piece of wood that I purchased and had crafted into a stock. This was done by Jules Bantchni who no longer makes stocks, I believe. The other two rifles were custom built for others and I just acquired them after they were built. In one case, I have done some stock reshaping and recutting of the cheekpiece and hand to make them more aesthetically pleasing. Certainly any knowledge which I may have is open to be shared freely with him.

Just keep us informed of what he decides. My interest is piqued now.

 

[Rigbymauser]

The .505 Gibbs was ofcouse made for a boltactioned magnum Mauser. Even though the thought of owe a .505Gibbs seems apealing, wouldn´t it be wiser to have a fallingblock rifle in a rimmed caliber like the .500 3" or 3,25" or perhaps take the .577/500 Magnum into a modern time and load it up to duplicate the .500 nitro?.
There is a guy in New Zealand who does excellent Farquarharsons M1897 style. I would start there and add some ambition to the project..

http://www.sorokarifle.com/

 

[Thankful Otter]

Rigbymauser. I think the easiest way for me to respond here is to ask you to please read the entire thread as well as my first post. Perhaps by only reading the heading of my thread is what mislead you. The 505 is a different project from the falling block project and as of today the two calibers being considered for the falling block project are the 7 x 57 and the 300 H & H. Soroka was one of the names given to him by Aleena and they were seriously bering considered until just yesterday. Again check out my first post and the one from HomerOZ.

Charlie, you and the others here and those on a couple of other forums have been very helpful in helping him come to a decision and I think you are correct--the ball is now in his court. Him and I thank you charlie for your help sir. We thank all those who have contributed with serious and helpful input.

We do have one dissenting fellow who has ask in a sarcastic manner if my grandfather is the wealthiest "eskimo" in the Yukon. Not that it is any of your business, but my grandfather is not an Inuit or even a First Nation. He was born and raised in the States, build his business in the States and sold it a few years ago after his wife ( our grandmother) passed away. My husband is also an American citizen. As some on a different forum are aware, and even assisted with his move, my grandfather had always dreamed of living in the mountains, so he moved north to fulfill his dream and to live close to his grandson who are very close.

 

[JD338]

Yup, the ball is in your grandfathers court.
Let us know what he decides on and share some pictures with us when you can.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

Cheyenne,

I am sorry to hear that someone chooses to be crass. What would it matter if your grandfather was native? It is his money and his decision to spend it as he wishes. I am astonished that anyone would choose to be rude. Many in the States are not aware how many ex-pats live in the north. There is a significant minority of ex-pat Americans living in this Peace country and even up into the Yukon.