Fire formed Lapua brass is shorter than the trim to length??

[Rmitch223]

Just recently fire formed my .243 Lapua brass. Most cases measure right at the trim to length of 2.035" Some are shorter by two or three thousandths and one is short by 6 thousandths.

Is the brass shorter than the trim to length okay to load and shoot?

I'm neck sizing them only this time around with a Lee collet neck sizing die.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[joelkdouglas]

Perfectly fine for cases to be shorter than the specified saami case length. I normally trim brass 0.004 inches shorter than specified hoping to get 2 firings prior to more trimming.

The saami case length is a max, not necessarily a min.

 

[Rmitch223]

Ok Thanks.

Another quick question: After neck sizing the brass is slightly harder to chamber. Is this normal? Its not real hard to close the bolt just slightly more pressure when doing so.

 

[rick smith]

It should not be harder to close the bolt after neck sizing.Rick.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Brass that is neck sized only will be slightly more difficult to chamber than full length sized brass, as you have not set back the shoulder of the case. However, you shouldn't have problems chambering with only one firing. I would say "more resistance" is acceptable as the brass should be a very close match to your rifle's chamber. However, I would say "difficult chambering" means you need to full length size.

 

[Charlie-NY]

If the brass chambers normally before sizing and has some resistance after sizing then my guess would be that the expander ball is pulling the shoulders forward as it sizes the neck back up on its way out of the case. Try using lube (or more generously lube) on the inside of case necks before you resize.

If cases are harder to chamber after the case is reloaded than other causes may be the culprit.

 

[Rmitch223]

I'm using a Lee collet neck sizing die, so there is no expander ball only the mandrel in the neck sizing die, so I don't see how it would pull the shoulder.

I'm pretty sure my load isn't to hot
105 amax
40gn of IMR-4350
Federal 210M
Seated at 2.800" COL

are these cases ok to load?

 

[joelkdouglas]

Have you figured out the distance to the lands with the 105 amax for your rifle? A bullet seated into the lands can also result in difficulty chambering.

Factory rifle? What kind is it?

Do you have a tool that you can use to determine headspace for the cartridge?

 

[Rmitch223]

The rifle is a Rem. 700 SPS varmint.

Yes, I have the bullet seated at .010 off the lands, I also have a hornady headspace gauge.

I tested the difficulty chambering with a empty neck sized case, cases are also within the trim length.

 

[FOTIS]

Perfectly normal. Will never notice the difference.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I agree with FOTIS, I think the reloads are fine. I was hoping the rifle in question was a 700, as mine gives me some resistance to chambering when neck sized only. At the range I don't notice, as I read once that bolt actions prefer rough handling, and I try to oblige. But at home when I am trying to "feel" if there's resistance I always notice something abnormal.

If you want the slight bit of felt resistance to go away you could full length size to 0.001 or 0.002 undersize of your fired case headspace length. I do this with a Redding Body Die, and they're pretty inexpensive.

 

[Rmitch223]

Ok, so from the responses I have received here and from snipers hide it seems to be normal that the neck sized brass is slightly harder to chamber. Will I still have adequate headspace to keep pressure down?

 

[Oldtrader3]

Since I converted most of my expander balls to carbide, I have not had nearly as much torque required to close my bolts on neck sized reloads. The carbide is so slick when pulling through the neck that I does not move anything, plus, I don't have to lube the inside of the case necks.

 

[Rmitch223]

Ok. but the Lee Collet neck sizing die doesn't have a expander ball only a mandrel, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how the mandrel could pull the shoulder out...?

Picture of the mandrel below.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I was not talking about Lee dies. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[Polaris]

This is common with Lee Collet Dies. I use them to load 7,5X55mm Swiss with relatively mild loads and I seldom have to trim. Once fired brass is typically a few thousandths SHORTER than new brass after sizing for me. It will begin to stretch after 3 or 4 firings as brass flows from farther back in the case. This is one of their selling points and it is absolutely true in my experience.

It is a good sign that your loads are slightly hard to chamber. It's the main reason for neck sizing. Just be sure you are not seating the bullets out so long that they are engaging the rifling. This will also cause some extra pressure in the last several thousandths of chambering as the locking lugs cam into place. It will leave telltale indentations on your bullets and can cause dangerous peak pressures. If your bullets are not seated too long, that camming action is an indication of the exact fit of your fireformed cases to your chamber which enhances accuracy and case life.

Tight fitting cases do not cause headspace/pressure issues unless the neck has grown unusually thick. They reduce or mitigate them. Dangerous headspace conditions are caused by too short of a case that has space to accelerate and slam back into the bolt face causing damage and eventually shearing of locking lugs and other critical parts.

 

[Rmitch223]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Polaris. That answered everything I was unsure about.

 

[Rmitch223]

I went threw all the 45 pcs of brass I had necked sized yesterday and some had slight resistance in closing the bolt and some had substantial resistance. So I went ahead and FL resized every case.
Kinda disappointed in that I'm not gonna get to try some neck sized cases to compare accuracy, but when I FL sized them I set my die up to bump the shoulder back .003 from 1.625 to 1.622.

I'm thinking that my chamber dimensions might be tight because I compared the headspace of a few factory rounds I had laying around and they were all at 1.622 as well as some never fired Lupua brass that I have. Is this normal to have fire formed brass FL resized back to that "factory" head space dimension?

 

[Oldtrader3]

Minimum chambers happen as reamers wear from use. I have owned rifles that were very tight chambers over the years. I just either put up with the harder bolt close or FL resize them each time.

 

[257 Ackley]

Ryan -
Are you planning on using this rifle for target shooting, competitions or hunting...? I have never used Lee dies, but have a basic concept of how they work. I have gone to bushing dies for any rifle that I am trying to shoot bug holes with. A standard Redding or RCBS die can be set up to only partially neck size and still bump the shoulder back .001 or so without "working" much of the brass and give you long life. If you are having difficulty closing the bolt vs. some resistance, you need to bump the shoulder back enough to close with slight resistance. See if you can borrow a FL sizing die from someone and play around with a neck size, shoulder bump combo that gives you what you want. I have a set of RCBS dies in .243 that you can buy for $25 if you want them. PM me...
Cheers