Groups

[corbin9191]

I am just wondering what everyone thinks are good groups for hunting long range. Because I have been dong alot of shooting lately and I have been achieving really good groups in my opinion. For instance one group that I just shot is with my 25-06. The group is 3 shots into .478 from center to center and another group with my 270 measuring .354 inches from center to center.

 

[DrMike]

Quit bragging! :lol:

Long range shooting is different things to different people, especially if they are thinking in terms of hunting loads. There is no question but that the more consistent a load is, the greater your confidence will be when you pull the trigger. A .35 MOA group will expand to slightly more than 2 inches at 600 yards (provided there is no wind drift) and to 3.5 inches at 1000 yards. Likewise, a .5 inch group will have expanded to 3 inches as 600 yards and 5 inches at 1000 yards if wind drift is negligible. For target shooting, the tiniest groups are vital as the competition is all about group size. However, for game, the vital zone on the chest of a deer is about 18 inches. A 3 MOA rifle will take deer to 300 yards without a problem.

We are living in a wonderful time when rifles are amazingly accurate by standards that were applied just a generation ago. There was a time when a 2 MOA rifle was considered a "tack driver." Most factory rifles will give 1.5 MOA accuracy with factory ammunition today, and that is more than sufficient for most hunting situations. With careful hand loading, these rifles can be made to shoot very well indeed.

This is my take, and it is pretty well worth what you paid for it. Sounds to me like you are making some pretty good loads, and I don't doubt that they will become better still as you refine them.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I consider 2 inches at 400 yards a good group. It won't win any competitions, but will sure put the venison in the freezer. If you are shooting under 1/2" at 100 yards, it's time to start moving the targets further out.

 

[JD338]

400 yds and further separates the men from the boys. Adjusting for elevation is the easy part. Its the wind and all its variables that really starts to factor in. A lot of practice is required at 400 yds and beyond to read and understand variable winds and thermals.
Top quality optics with high resolution and dial repeatability are needed to consistently shoot at long range too.
You are well on your way shooting loads that are sub .5 MOA at 100 yds. Start shooting at the longer ranges and see how you do.

JD338

 

[hardpan]

+1 to both comments. a 1.5 inch group will almost always be in the kill zone at 300 yds. But if long range is 500 yds, you have a lot more to consider. Personally, for my hunting rifles, I call a 1/2 inch group a good group. IE, cover all the holes with a dime. I have heard people say that if you cannot get closer than 300 yards, you are not a good hunter. But, i shoot across canyon sometimes, and those shots go up to 500 yds.

Also, make sure that you have enough muzzle velocity at the distance that you want to shoot. I tend to shoot magnums for the extra velocity. Nothing wrong with an -06, but with a mag i can get 3400 fps for a .257 without a sweat, and 3100 for a .300. Makes a difference when shoot cross canyon.

Your groups are fine. The real question is: How good are you? Hence, my brothers on this forum are recommending that you practice at the distance that you intend to shoot. Know your distances, rifle, bullet and drops/velocity. There are not a lot of excuses accepted by most of us for wounding game. I firmly believe in a chronograph for characterizing velocity, and then I still shoot at least 300 yard targets. And 400 when I can. On my place in Texas, we set 8 inch balloons at 600 and 700 yards for kicks and grins.

Best,
Hardpan

 

[Ridge_Runner]

Your rifles will serve you well for hunting, but at long range, shooting is the easiest part. You have to learn alot, its not rocket science but there are alot of little things you need to know, as far as what affects a bullets trajectory and what and how to compensate for it.

You'll have just mere seconds to do alot of things after spotting your game, kinda like this
spot a buck that looks good in the bino's
get him in the spotting scope, or other optics to judge them, yep he's a shooter
range him
get the rifle set up, (Actualy just pointed in the right direction)
range again as you look at the drop chart, (hopefully you've allready got wind speed direction barometric pressure)
set your drops
get him in the scope, watch the wind through the scope in the bullet path as you illiminate parralaxkeep an eye on the wind as you await an opprotunity for a shot, when it comes you make your last wind call, and your checking the deers body language looking for at least a 1/2 second window when your sure he won't move (this depends alot on range, the hot mags will seldom get to 500 yards in less than 1/2 sec.)
once you've done all this breathe and squeeze.
You've just experienced 10 seconds in the life of a LR hunter.
RR

 

[hardpan]

+1 RR:

Actually, I find a great spot, then shoot my gun and then go look for dead animals! Kind of like the health care package. If I shoot enough, I am bound to get a trophy! Right?


Seriously, all of that comes into play, but if you shoot enough, you will get a feel for it and then all of that calculating gets easier and faster.

Hardpan

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

+2 RR.
It really helps when you have a good spotter that can help with the range and wind. Trying to operate a rife, range finder, and wind gauge all at the same time is pretty tough. A large portion of the time the range finder won't work, and then it's down to your skill with the mil-dot/tme reticle to find the range. Then you have to worry, is the critter going to wander just a little bit one way or the other....
The difference between 1000 and 1025 yards with my rifle is a full 12 inches. On an antelope, that's the difference between a heart shot, and a clean miss.

+1 Hardpan. You got to pull the trigger in the field at those long range to truely learn the art of long range hunting.

 

[baltz526]

i look at an elk at 550yds through my 2.8x10x44 scope. then range it again, set up to make the shot and just can not make myself shoot. Too far for me. I have been in this situation twice, a great 6x6 one year at 535yds, a spike last year at 565yds. field conditions limit my long range ability. even when my rifle will shoot 2" 300yd groups

 

[Guest]

That's called wisdom and sportsmanship, Baltz. Have no worries. Not taking the shot doesn't make you bad. Taking a bad shot and wounding an animal, when you know the shot isn't right before you take it, that makes you bad. Nice ethics, my friend. Have a cold one on me.

 

[DrMike]

Good for you, Baltz. Too many yahoos will try to take the shot even though they have never tested their rifle at that range. A thousand yard shoot on a cut block is a real eye opener for many people. Even a 400 yard shot from the bench at the range would waken many people. Unfortunately, too many are like the fellows I see every fall that show up at the range, sling a couple of shots that at least hit the paper, and pronounce that they are good to go. Consistently shooting game at distance is not something that just happens.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I have a target stand at 830 yards, I try to shoot 1 3 shot group at that range a week, have slacked a bit this year, but soon as my daughters diabetes management becomes second nature for the whole family, I'll have more time.
I do get out a few times a year and harrass a rock on the backside of 1000 yards.
Shooting like this often and continualy tweaking your charts to your rifle will show you that it really isn't that far to make a 700 yard shot. But you can't do it in a month,took me years to be able to get the rifle out, in front of my peers and confidantly shoot a target at about any given range.
RR

 

[DrMike]

Everyone who reads of Marine snipers or those talented lads from the Canadian armed forces who take shots at 1700 metres plus. That doesn't just happen, but is the result of constant practise. Likewise, the individual capable of taking game cleanly at 600 plus yards does not do so if he does not constantly practise. RR is right, as are many of the other fellows who has posted on this thread. The mark of a sportsman is knowing his/her limit and remaining within that limit. That is ethical hunting.

Wow! That sounds preachy! Nevertheless, it is accurate and needed.

 

[corbin9191]

Thank you for all of your input everyone! I know for certain that I will NOT take a shot at any range if I know I can't get a clean kill with one shot. But I have been practicing at long ranges 500+ for quite some time to try to get most of the ballistics for my rifles. I have taken a deer with my 270 win at 675 yards and dropped him with a double lung shot.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Nice Job Corbin.
Welcome to the 600 yd+ club. :grin: