Gunsmith RUINED my Model 70...

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm gonna sell that action as soon as I figure out what is a fair price for it...the barrel too (it can be shortened to 22" and be good as new I think.

I just don't want to build a fine custom on top of a hack job...

 

[IdahoCTD]

It was gonna cost more than it was worth to take him to court...with no guarantee of getting my legal fees paid in the settlement...my lawyer, a "gun guy" himself, didn't get around to calling me back until after I had already accepted the measly $150 today, but he said I did the right thing...this was a no win situation for all parties involved...it sux, but its a lesson learned.

I'm moving on...gonna build...err, have built...a rifle the way I want it.

Gonna keep it a 30-06...custom barrel, model 70 action, using the same McMillan stock as before...

Probably gonna let Long Rifles Inc. do the work...but not sure yet.

Who makes a good, accurate, long lasting barrel?

Also thinking about a heavier contour (#4 or #5) with flutes...not crazy about the look of flutes, but if I can get better accuracy and the same weight...why not?

Small claims court would have been my course of action with that. I sued a gunsmith that screwed up a chamber job 20+ years ago and got the cost of a new barrel and a refund on the money I paid him to chamber it plus court cost. You have the proof that he screwed it up and made the whole gun worthless. It would have been pretty cut and dried in court IMO.

BTW flutes don't make a more accurate barrel. The accuracy of a barrel that weighs the same fluted or un-fluted will be the same provided the barrel is of equal accuracy to start with. Call any of the top barrel makers and they will tell you that. It's basically cosmetic with a touch more cooling ability. I would use a Bartlein barrel personally.

I agree that action should be able to be fixed. The biggest deal is to not get it too hot so it changes the hardening.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Small Claims Court as stated above is your best bet and if he loses, he pays the legal fees too.

 

[muleman]

Oh man... that simply bites.

Why not buy the M48 and leave these clods behind?

My single experience with Nosler's CS and a broken rifle was nothing short of fantastic.

I've tried to talk myself into that...tried hard, really hard...but I'm pretty sold on CRF...I'm thinking if I can get a new rifle, I'm gonna send it to Long Rifles Inc., have them work their accuracy magic, screw on a Bartlein or Lilja or Hart barrel, rebuild the McMillan stock, get a professional bedding done, a good quality finish...and hope for the best.

EDIT: thats what I'm gonna do...the only question is who will pay for the new rifle.

I spoke to LRI on the phone today...he was very straightforward and knowledgeable, he knew model 70's...something thats hard to find...M700 smiths are a dime a dozen, model 70 smiths are not so common.

For the price of a Nosler Custom...I can have a full custom model 70.

I'm going to use Longrifles for my next 70 build! Chad is working on a groupbuy pricing for Snipershide based on the Win 70; should have it out soon. It could save you a few bucks.
Scott

 

[Ridgerunner665]

He mentioned that when we were talking the other day...

 

[NYDAN]

BTW flutes don't make a more accurate barrel. The accuracy of a barrel that weighs the same fluted or un-fluted will be the same provided the barrel is of equal accuracy to start with. Call any of the top barrel makers and they will tell you that. It's basically cosmetic with a touch more cooling ability.

When I visited the Remington Custom Rifle shop last fall the custom rifle barrel maker told me the same thing when he showed me the fluting machine.

 

[RiverRider]

So, Ridgerunner...are you gonna out the hacksaw wizard or keep us in suspense??

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Was wondering the same thing. That wasn't a simple mistake. It takes a special kind of stupid to do what they did.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[Ridgerunner665]

You're dang right I'm going to out them...very much so...was just waiting to get my $150 in the bank....which is done now.

Their website is still under construction...but here is their Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/atl.outdoorsmen?ref=stream

I'm going to do a very detailed write up on this....and post it on every forum I can think of and Facebook....by all means, feel free to tell them what you think of how they handled this...

They will most likely reply stating that I signed a paper saying I was satisfied with the work and how the mess up was taken care of....its true, I did sign that (well my wife signed the latter one when she picked up the cashiers check)...I had to in order to get the $150...but believe me when I tell you, I made it very clear to them that I was not satisfied at all...and that I was going to tell this story far and wide.

I haven't been irate with them at all...though I very much wanted to be...they were also very polite through the entire process of screwing me over [emoji53]

 

[JD338]

Ridge,

The pen is mightier than the sword.
I hope they soon realize that it would have been cheaper to fulfill your request and try to make it right with you. We are behind you 110% buddy.

JD338

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Thanks a million!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

It will probably be a day or two before I finish the detailed write up on this...wanna make sure I state everything clearly and cover all the details.

 

[RiverRider]

I'll be sure and drop by and leave them a sweet little love note. The way they tried to weasel out of responsibility for their screwup is light years beyond understandable. A hole in the chamber is acceptable??? I'll tell you what, that's what I call pissin on a man's leg and telling him it's rainin. I tend to react very unfavorably to that kind of thing, and if they did it to you they'd do it to me. That's a big NO GO.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

If i have learned anything about dealing with customers its this, always own up to your mistakes. You can mess up a customers part if you take responsibility and fix it better than new

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[SJB358]

Good luck with all of this. I am sorry for your loss of a Model 70. I hope you can make something good come from all of this.

 

[11 Charlie]

That takes incompetence to a new level. He's the doh-bama of gunsmiths!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Sorry to hear of your loss!! Thats totally unacceptable.

The Bartlein I just had put on seems to shoot and clean up pretty good and easy.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

This isn't finished yet...I'm just getting to the really sad part...I'll add the rest later this weekend...tired of typing for now.


To begin this I want to explain the rifle this happened to...Its an FN made Winchester model 70 in 30-06, McMillan Supergrade stock, and before this had been wearing a Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44mm scope...I've spent 4 years and $2,350 putting this rifle together (rifle, scope, stock, stock bedding materials, etc.)...it was an absolute tack driver, bugholes at 100 yards, 1-1.5" groups at 300 yards, 4-5" groups at 600 yards (3 round groups)...It was almost perfect, for me...but the Vortex scope was just a little out of place on this rifle...I needed a scope designed for hunting...FWIW, there is a pretty good history of this gun on a few forums, complete with pictures.

So, a while back I bought a new scope for my rifle...the new scope is a Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x42mm, I also got some Talley lightweight rings/bases to put it in because the holes in one of the Warne steel bases I had been using were drilled a little off center, visibly off center...just enough to be able to see it...I put those Warne bases on there about 3 years ago, I used a drop of blue Loctite (242) on the screws, same as I have done dozens of times before on other rifles over the years...but this particular time, it stuck unusally hard...when I went to remove the Warne bases it broke the tip off the Torx bit...the screws woudn't budge!

After I broke the Torx bit in the one screw I brought out the heat gun...heated a different screw to 500 degrees (per the digital settings on my heat gun)...and broke another Torx bit, that screw wouldn't budge either! So I stopped, thought it over a bit, and decided to try a GraBit ( http://www.thegrabitstore.com/Pages/mic ... t4kit.aspx )...DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THESE, they are useless for seriously stuck fasteners, might work OK for something stuck in wood...anyway, that didn't work either...at this point I knew I was gonna need a gunsmith.

I knew what needed to be done, but I don't have the equipment (drill press, mill)...so I looked up a gunsmith, for what should have been such a simple job I didn't stress over it much, any gunsmith should be able to drill out stuck scope bases (that assumption was my first mistake)...I called ATL Outdoorsmen in Johnson City, TN...their website is still under construction (new store), but here is their Facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/atl.outdoorsmen )...they said, "Sure, we'll get them out..bring it on over"...so I took it to them...as I was filling out the invoice, I mentioned that I'd like to speak to the gunsmith to ask him about some possible work in the future...I wanted to know if he could ream chambers, set back barrels, etc....you know, gunsmith stuff! When I mentioned that I'd like to speak the the gunsmith he (Andrew, guy behind the counter) completely disregarded the question...that was a BIG red flag to me...but then I reminded myself, its a simple task to drill out scope bases (I'm still kicking myself for that decision)...I let them "fix" it.

I called them back late the next day to ask how it was coming...they said to come get it around 11am the next day...I was there at 11 am sharp, it wasn't ready yet...so I went and done some other shopping in the area for a couple of hours...went back, this time it was done...he (Andrew, not the gunsmith) brought it out to me explaining how it was difficult to get the screws out, but he was able to save the threads in all 4 holes...I was happy...for about 10 seconds...happiness ended when I caught a glimpse of the threads in the rear base holes...there were no useable threads actually, the front hole was slightly oblong, enough to see with the naked eye! I was already thinking...OK...get it out of here, find a real gunsmith, and re-thread the holes to 8-40 thread, and accept it as my own damn fault for using the blue Loctite in the first place (I will use purple from now on...Loctite 222)...I looked the rifle over, noticed a few other things that were not there when I brought it to them...some rust on the underside, most likely from the gunsmith having to reblue the top of the action but I'm not sure...I figure it was caused by a combination of heat and solvent he used to clean it before blueing it...but thats only a guess...all I know for sure is that there was NO RUST anywhere on my rifle when I brought it in, I'm very anal about keeping my guns clean...they stay soaked in quality lubricant....I use CLP these days, but have used other things over the years...in 30 years I've NEVER had a gun rust...NONE!

Then there were the dings and scratches that he covered with the new coat of blueing...but I was willing to accept all this as my fault, for bringing it to them to begin with, for using the blue Loctite, and because these things could be fixed without much work or money....I was just gonna chalk it up to a lesson learned....

So I signed the invoice stating that the work was done to my satisfaction, I was anything but satisfied...but I just wanted this whole ordeal to be over and done with, I didn't bother complaining about all the shoddy work, just wanted to get my rifle out of there...they charged me $90 for all that.

I took the rifle home, cleaned it good to stop the rust, and was looking in the cracks and crevices with a flashlight to make sure everything got lubed when I noticed something that made me plumb sick....the light was shining through the end of the reciever, I was looking down at the action from the top...and could see light through the FRONT scope base hole, when you look through this hole on a controlled round feed model 70 action, you are supposed to see BARREL THREADS...for those that don't know (as this gunsmith obviosly didn't)...that hole does not go all the way through....it goes through the reciever, but not through the barrel tenon and into the chamber! He drilled it plumb through and into the chamber...he ruined the best rifle I've ever owned!

 

[nvbroncrider]

Man that would make anyone sick. All he needed was a LH drill bit and it would have drilled right out. Had to do it on my 280AI had a bad screw and it snapped before I had it torqued talk about some nervous minutes drilling it out.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Wrote some more today....Still not finished...there is no way to tell this in just a few words...don't want it to be unclear...by the way, this isn't posted anywhere but here yet...not going to spread it around until its finished....feel free to make suggestions for any changes that need to be made to better make the point.




After I got over the initial cussing fit...I called them and told them what had happened....they said "bring it up and let us take a look"...I took it back up there (this trip is 37 miles each way)...and it really went downhill from here.

Andrew looked it over for a minute, then tried to tell me Winchester told him that hole was supposed to be there, and all the way through on a controlled round feed Model 70...I knew better, anybody familiar with firearms knows there cannot be a hole in the chamber, brass will not hold the pressure of firing a 30-06 round (appx. 60,000 psi)....after I had explained this fact to them enough that they figured out I wasn't ignorant of the physics of metallic cartridge operating pressures and brass strength they abandoned that argument...

It was then that I finally got to meet the gunsmith for the first time...he came out, looked it over, and plainly said that it took him forever to get that hole drilled, broke 3 bits doing it (keep this in mind for the rest of this story)...it took me a few minutes to explain to the gunsmith that this was a Model 70, not a Remington 700...and that hole was not supposed to go all the way through, but I did convince him (at least I believe I did), at which point he said...."I'll write that down in my notes...I didn't know".

From here on they were very defensive though...didn't matter what I said...they said I was wrong (I wasn't)...first the gunsmith spoke up and said "I can fix it...I'm a good gunsmith and I'm a good welder"....they tried to tell me it was OK to weld on a rifle barrel, he wanted to weld the barrel, at the chamber!...IN THE CHAMBER! I couldn't believe what I was hearing...I refused that fix quick, fast, and in a hurry!

Then they started looking at replacing the barrel...Winchester won't sell just barrels, or even barreled actions...they ended up deciding they'd get me a Douglas barrel as a replacement, but I was not about to let that gunsmith do any more work on any guns of mine...NONE!!!...who could blame me after what I had seen and heard? Then they offered just the barrel and I could get it hung on there wherever I wanted...I didn't like that solution.

I walked in there with a VERY accurate Winchester barrel...I believe I have the right to walk out with the same thing I walked in with...I didn't want a Douglas barrel, or any other barrel...I wanted a Winchester barrel, made by FN...some of the best factory barrels made, arguably better than a low grade custom barrel in many respects....or at least I believe they are, I have 3 of these guns....all very accurate, clean shooting, and consistent.