H414 Temp Sensitivity??? .260 Remington

[HeathSexton]

I have a load for my .260 Rem wih 44.8grs H414 that shoot very good + 120NBT. I have been reading more and more about 414 being temp sensitive and big lot variations?? Should I be looking for another powder, if so, what would you guys reccommend?


H4350, H4831??


Thanks

 

[SJB358]

Heath, if it shoots well and turns in good groups I would stick with it. Yeah, temp sensitivity can affect accuracy, but only under extreme conditions and then again, only under truely LR shooting will you notice it. If it shoots well, stick with it. I can't see you ever having an issue unless you are a LR target/hunter. Scotty

 

[HeathSexton]

Here in TN we will see 90 in summer and usually down to 15-20 in the winter. I don't consider that extreme, but I don't know. I read about safe load in fall popping out primers in summer.


It shoots dang good, I just don't want something crazy going on. I have shot from 90 degree groundhogs to 20 degree coyotes and have never seen anything screwy??

 

[DrMike]

Heath,

Use the H414 and you don't need to worry. I develop loads at -15 C and when temperatures reach +30 C, then you can see changes. For what you describe, it won't be a great problem.

 

[JD338]

Heath,

The same has been said about RL 22. I use it for a couple cartridges with stellar performance.
If H 414 works,don't worry and be happy. :grin:

JD338

 

[Powerstroke]

Heath -

I've been using H414 as the go to load with 130gr AB's out of one of my .260's I can't say I've been on the extreme hot
side, however have yet to see any issues @ -20deg F.

I have somehting about that powder - just not sure yet - seems difficult to believe it achieves the results it does
with such a small amount.
I've also had great results with N560 - it's the go fast powder for the 130's I use a lot of Viht and have never seen
temp sensitive issues - it also burns very clean.

 

[RDub]

Hello
Haven't been around here in some time.. Finally broke down and got a new computer.. Havin all kinds of fun.
But anyway..
I've been doin this reloading thing for a long time and in the very beginning I started noticing differences in BOTH factory and reloaded ammunition in point of impact and in some cases, but not all, accuracy as conditions changed. There is no set pattern to it.. Every rifle and load is unique in this way. Some will shoot extremely well in warm,+-70° weather, only to find out groups open up at +-20°. Or visa versa.. And once you start using a chronograph, a whole new world opens up to you. Yes, velocities are higher in warmer ambients and a little slower in colder. Not slower enough to make any real difference with respect to performance on game, but if you are a long range shooter, it might present a problem.

So what does all this really mean?... Well we don't really know UNTIL we actually shoot in the various conditions. This is really the key in all this. It's nothing we can predict. You might not see any appreciable difference as conditions change, or you might see a difference you might want to be aware of.

What I have done to combat this to some degree, is develop loads as close to the ambient conditions that I expect to hunt in. If I know I'm going on a late season elk hunt where it's going to be freakin cold.. I'll spend the time in really cold weather and work up loads. Makes for a long day in your insulated overalls, but it works.

On the other side, Antelope season is during August and digger shootin is goin on all summer long, so I will develop loads for that in warm weather. And everything in between, I try to do the best I can.

And yes, this puts more of a burden on you as a shooter and hunter to know what you are shooting, but it's a choice I make and I'm ok with it.

It's wintertime now, so shoot some groups and see what you get. And then with the same load duplicate this summer. And go ahead and shoot some during fall or spring. Then you will know for sure. :wink:
If.. you do see any differences, then make note of what they are and you can then make any necessary changes in sight settings accordingly.

Anyway I hope this sheds some more light on this from what was already well said..

 

[257 Ackley]

Heath -
I load for a .260 as well and tried H414 early on with 130AB's and found a fairly accurate (MOA) and fast load using 45 grains. R19 was also tried and ended up being the powder I use with the 130's. It was slightly slower, but accuracy was better. R19 is a little slower burning than H414, so it may not work as well with the 120 grain bullets as the 130s, but it is another option for you to try along with Powerstrokes suggestions.

 

[Gm weatherby man]

Rdub I like what you have to say in regards to loads in different temps, seen those effects all my life, and I appreciate those that truely experienced that knowledge.P.s. This is one rule I tend to follow, if a certain powder gives me a tight group throughout the different powder charge to my given max, then that is my chosen powder to hunt with in all weather conditions.

 

[Ol` Joe]

The problem isn`t going from hot to cold temperature, but from cold/mild to hot in the summer.
Temperature issues are not so apparent when you go from say a 65*-70* F fall day to 20* F or less during season, but in the summer when temps rise to 90* F from 65*-70* the pressures can jump up with it. I have heard ball powders as a whole are bad for sensitivity, and W748 has seemed to show pressure on hot days when warm loads worked up in cool temps were shot from my 223. I dropped that powder for H4895 as my "go to" powder in the 223 and velocities are much more even from winter to summer.
The Reloader powders seem to show some quirks too IMO. I`ve put a pressure trace on a 6.5x55 and with R22 and a 129gr Hornady SP found pressure to rise from 43Kpsi @27* F to 48K psi @ 83* F. Unfortunately I didn`t have enough powder of that lot to check the pressures at higher temps yet. I still like Reloader powders however and use R19 with 120-130 gr bullets in my 260 Rem and R22 with 129 and up in my Swede.
If you are not seeing pressure signs with your load in hot weather and work them up in the summer months when temps are higher I wouldn`t worry. The drop in pressure of 50*-60* F shouldn`t amount to more then ~ 100 fps and out to ~300 yds shouldn`t affect your trajectory enough to cause a miss if you have been doing your part right.

 

[HeathSexton]

Thanks for the info guys, I would have replied back sooner but I decided to catch the stomach flu. I had some temp sensativity and some pressure problems with it, aka lived in the bathroom.


The load I worked up went 2880fps in the summer with the 120gr NBT - 44.8grs H414. I have not chrono'd it in the cold, I may try to do that this week as it is very cold for this area, around 0.


I'll let you know how it fairs.

 

[DrMike]

Heath,

Good to have the flu behind you (so to speak).

If there is a pressure problem with your handload, it will be when you have developed a load in colder weather and shoot it in warmer weather, just as Ol' Joe has stated. Since you developed the load in hot weather, you will not have pressure problems in cooler weather. It is possible that you will have a drop in velocity, but unless you are shooting at extended distances, this should not significantly affect your POI.

 

[PJGunner]

I don't load for the .260, at least not yet. You never know though. I use W760 which is H414 under the Winchester brand and they're the same powders. I do all my load work up during the very hot Southern Arizona summers andmost of the time just hunt in state. Even in the Nortern part of the state, up in the Kaibab National Forest where it usually is substantially cooler.( Upper 3's in the AM and can wrm up toas high as near 80 by late afternoon) I haven't seen much change in impact from the rifle I use there, a Ruger RSI shooting a 165 gr. Speer Hot-Core at 2510 during the summer, dunno what it was up north. Only one shot had any length to it, 250 yards. All the other deer I have taken from that area (3) were shot at from 25 Yards to maybe 45 yards.
H414 and W760 are supposed to be temerature sensitive According to some tests done by the late Bob Hagel the differences were quite significant. FRankly, could couldn't prove it by me.
Paul B.

 

[Desert Fox]

All ball powder are temperature sensitives and that includes the H414. I found it the hard way when I set out to developed load for my 308 using BLC-2. This info came from my conversation with a ballistician at Hodgdon.

 

[DrMike]

All ball powder are temperature sensitive.

+1