Heavy 45-70 Govt loads or advice??

[remingtonman_25_06]

I have a NEF 45-70 that I have been shooting 300g Hornady HP's at 2000fps with 48g of IMR-4198. Accuracy is surprisingly good, about 1.5" at 100 yards. I figure this is a good load for plinking, coyotes, deer, and maybe black bears?? Anyways, from what I gather, you need at least a 350g bullet for elk. I was going to go out on a limb here and try something like some 500g TSX bullets or something. I just want them for elk mainly. Would certainly put the big hurt on both ends, lol!! I tried getting the bulk Remington 405g SP's but everywhere is back ordered. I dont know of any other 400-500g lead bullets, besides Swift A Frames, or the all copper Barnes X bullet, both of which are about $1 bullet or more.

Anyways, I'm not real familiar with the big bores, just kinda always wanted one for the fun of it mainly. Slinging a big chunk of lead is actually quite fun. Can I use those big 500g Barnes TSX bullets in the 45-70? I dont think there would be a problem, but then again, i'm not 100% positive. What would you guys use for up close elk out of the big Govt?? Thanks for any help and or advice.

 

[JD338]

Remmy,

Guy Miner recently did an expansion test on 350 gr bullets from his 45-70.
http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8257
I think the 500 gr bullets would be too slow from the 45-50 when loaded for your NEF. In a Ruger #1, you can load them to a much higher pressure/velocity that would work with the heavier bullets.

JD338

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I saw that. Pretty nice looking bullets. Pretty surprised with the Hornady as a matter of fact... I think I want a little heavier then 350g though, just for the extra WHOP factor! I'm thinking I want around a 400g slug. Should be able to shoot 1700-1800fps or so. Actually noticed Speer makes a 400g SP. Might have to try some of those since I cant get any of the 405g Rem SP's. No matter what you shoot out of the 45-70, its got a Rainbow trajectory anyways, might as well have some thump when it gets there!

 

[Guy Miner]

For max penetration, it's hard to beat the better hardcast, large-meplat hunting bullets from Beartooth Bullets, Cast Performance Bullets or Randy Garret's own premium loads.

I've shot the Speer 400, and it's a good bullet, but soft. It expands very rapidly and Speer specifically recommends against using it on big bears, because of insufficient penetration. The Remington 405 is very similar in performance, but seems a bit tougher to me. I took a mulie with the 405 Remington loaded to modest velocity a few years ago. Worked great. Not much of a test of those big bore bullets.

There's some magic in the .45/70 - it's just plain fun to shoot and effective as all getout within it's envelope. For max penetration - check into the heavy cast bullets. Also - Nosler's own 300 grain Partition has racked up a very impressive reputation for really deep penetration on game....

I hope to have another edition of the test soon!

Regards, Guy

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Now for those cast bullets, which diameter would you get?? It seems like most are not .458". I see .459" a lot, are those the ones to get??? Also I dont really know the terms of cast bullets. For example, 460g Lead Wide Long Nose GC, or 405g Lead FN Plain Base. What the heck is that??? Would that 460g be a good choice for hunting in the NEF?? Ah, to many choices...

 

[HeathSexton]

In my Encore I was loading 48grs of RL7 and a 350gr Hornady RN and was getting between 1990-2000fps. I am not sure what the book max is, 52-53 maybe? My gun is accurate with the 48gr load, but it was more than needed for our whitetails here so I just shoot some factory fodder now.

 

[FOTIS]

I used the 300 NP and the 350 Hornady 350 flat point with reloader 7.

 

[Alaska]

Be careful.....that action is not as strong as the Marlin or T/C.

Best loads were with reloader 7 and IMR 3031 with 350gr Speer FN in the single shot!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

ANyone know about how strong these NEF's are then??

I"m curious as to how hot they will handle myself. I see you can push the 300g HP's to 2400fps out of the lever actions with IMR-4198, according to Hodgons website anyways using 57g IMR-4198. I"m using 47g IMR-4198 @ 2000fps which seems to be a pretty mild load... Was thinking of trying to run it up to 2300fps or so. I was also going to try and maybe get the 350's to 2000-2100, or the 400's to 1900. All seem possible according to Hodgons website with the lever actions. Is that not possible with the NEF's??

Its gotta be a lot stronger then the "trapdoor" models or whatever they are. I know its not like a Ruger No1 or Browning HiWall, but its still got to be in the middle or little higher of the road, right??

I called a Sierra tech and he was kinda helpful. He said to stay in the lower to middle range of charge weights for the NEF. But he didn't say for what pressures...

Would really like to get this thing thumping on both ends!!!

 

[FOTIS]

Be careful.....that action is not as strong as the Marlin or T/C.

True ......... It is basically a factory load gun. Call them....I did and that is what they told me.

Unless you move up to a Marlin or a Ruger #1......then conform! :lol:

 

[nomosendero]

Be careful.....that action is not as strong as the Marlin or T/C.

True ......... It is basically a factory load gun. Call them....I did and that is what they told me.

Unless you move up to a Marlin or a Ruger #1......then conform! :lol:

I would not expect them to say otherwise.

A factory has everything to lose & nothing to gain by saying it is OK to shoot hot reloads or for that matter ammo you buy when they don't know exactly what you may purchase.

But ask yourself this. If this is true, why did they chamber the 450 Marlin
until it quit. selling? Why do they chamber the 270, 30-06, 270 & 35 Whelen? To my knowledge NEF doesn't warn people not to shoot Hornady
Light Magnums in the '06, 280 & 270.

Also, why does Garrett say you can shoot their ammo in an NEF? Also, Buffalo Bore says you can shoot their HEAVY ammo in the NEF, but
not in weaker guns like a Contender. The Encore is stronger than a NEF, but the Contender is considerably weaker.

No, the NEF is not nearly as strong as a bolt gun, Number 1 & many others, but it would compare well with the Marlin any day & I am much more of a Marlin fan than an NEF fan. I sold my 450 Marlin & bought an
XLR, but it sure was not because of strength, as I found out in shooting both.

 

[Guy Miner]

I've got a buddy who uses his NEF .45/70 as a backpacker's gun - with bears in mind. He loads 350 grain Speer bullets STOUT. Stout enough that he had to epoxy the rear sight back in place after a few shots...

I don't have his load data handy, but he's loading it to the top levels of Marlin loads - and maybe into Ruger loads.... Has been doing so for at least four years as I recall... It kicks like a moose. Mule. Something that kicks hard. But dang, it's a lot of fun! :grin: I think any bear that runs afoul of the old-timer in question is not going to have long to regret his actions...

Regards, Guy

 

[yeayow]

The older nef's that were built on shotgun frames were not the strongest but the newer ones with i believe serial numbers after N are strong. If you go to graybeard outdoors web site and go to the nef forum you'll see that they are loaded pretty stoutly and are considered to be equal or stronger than the marlin action but not as strong as the ruger but then most actions aren't.