Help me build my mountain rifle, 6.5x284, 270 win, or 280 Ac

[JD338]

mcseal2

My M700 Hart barreled 280 AI tips the scale at 9 lbs even as shown.

The barrel is a 24" #5 contour.

JD338

 

[gerry]

That is a very nice looking gun you have there JD, and we have seen how well it shoots too Those grey laminates are such nice looking stocks.

 

[mcseal2]

That is a beautiful rifle JD338. Mine won't be as pretty, but I hope it shoots as well. I've decided on the 280 ackley as long as Pac Nor calls back so I can order it before I change my mind again. What bullet do you shoot out of yours and with what barrel twist? I'm thinking of going with a 1 in 9 twist and starting with the 140gr AccuBond and 140gr E-tip for working up loads.

 

[JD338]

That is a beautiful rifle JD338. Mine won't be as pretty, but I hope it shoots as well. I've decided on the 280 ackley as long as Pac Nor calls back so I can order it before I change my mind again. What bullet do you shoot out of yours and with what barrel twist? I'm thinking of going with a 1 in 9 twist and starting with the 140gr AccuBond and 140gr E-tip for working up loads.

You won't be disappointed in the 280 AI.
My barrel is a 1:9 twist. I am shooting 140 gr and 160 gr AB's.

JD338

 

[Songdog]

I built a Rem. 700 in .280 AI a couple of years back... 24" Lilja in a Mickey Edge. With a 3.5-10 Leupold in Talleys it weighed 8lbs 4oz... when shooting 160s the recoil was rather nasty. On the other hand, I had a M7 in .300 SAUM that was a wonderful little gun and weighed an ounce under 8lbs with the same glass/mounts.... though I will admit, the heaviest bullets I ever shot out of it were the 165 NBTs.

Sometimes... the rifle should decide what caliber it should be chambered in.... and for a "mountain rifle" that you're using to hunt "mountain" game (meaning: won't eat you or stomp you into a fine paste), a small step down in performance can lead to a much more shoot-able platform and the accompanying accuracy benefits (which means you might not need as much "performance"). Besides, we're not talking about a 13lb 800 yard elk slucer... this is a hunting rifle... packed a hundred hours for every time it's fired in the field. If it'll run a 140-180 grain bullet through the clockwork of a bull at 400... then I'm good... and I do believe any of the choices you've listed will do that with aplomb. Pick the caliber you think you'll shoot the most.... the benefits of that choice alone will outweigh (figuratively... not literally... that would be bad on a mtn. rifle) any marginal gain in perceived performance between the listed rounds.

 

[mcseal2]

I built a Rem. 700 in .280 AI a couple of years back... 24" Lilja in a Mickey Edge. With a 3.5-10 Leupold in Talleys it weighed 8lbs 4oz... when shooting 160s the recoil was rather nasty. On the other hand, I had a M7 in .300 SAUM that was a wonderful little gun and weighed an ounce under 8lbs with the same glass/mounts.... though I will admit, the heaviest bullets I ever shot out of it were the 165 NBTs.

Sometimes... the rifle should decide what caliber it should be chambered in.... and for a "mountain rifle" that you're using to hunt "mountain" game (meaning: won't eat you or stomp you into a fine paste), a small step down in performance can lead to a much more shoot-able platform and the accompanying accuracy benefits (which means you might not need as much "performance"). Besides, we're not talking about a 13lb 800 yard elk slucer... this is a hunting rifle... packed a hundred hours for every time it's fired in the field. If it'll run a 140-180 grain bullet through the clockwork of a bull at 400... then I'm good... and I do believe any of the choices you've listed will do that with aplomb. Pick the caliber you think you'll shoot the most.... the benefits of that choice alone will outweigh (figuratively... not literally... that would be bad on a mtn. rifle) any marginal gain in perceived performance between the listed rounds.

I agree, the performance level I'm looking for is a 140gr bullet at 3000fps. I had a Colt light rifle in 7 mag for a while that I loaded down to that level for deer hunting, then loaded up to 3000fps with 160's for elk one time. I traded it due to the safety rubbing off on my pack frequently. It was pretty pleasant to shoot with the 140's in an 8lb ready to hunt gun, but not with the 160's.

When you got your Edge stock did you go with the 1" or 1/2" pad?

Just when I had my mind made up to go with the 280 ackley I talked to Pac Nor and they have a .277 barrel in stock I could get a pretty decent deal on. I could likely use my existing turrets for a 140 AB at 3000fps and save lots of money on brass since I already have a bunch. I think I could also shorten the overall length by going with a 1/2" pad and 23" barrel in a 270 win. Also ammo is available anywhere if the situation ever arose my reloads were lost. I sat down last night and did a list with a positive/negative column for each and the 270 won considering that I still plan to get a 300WSM in the next couple years. The 280 ackley is just to versatile, gives me less reason to get another gun I guess. I'll stew on it for a while longer. They both offer what I want for performance, and I'd likely not load the 280 ackley to it's full velocity potential anyway to keep recoil down.

Here is what my aresenal looks like and what I want

custom 204 Ruger (45gr Hornady at 3600fps for calling, 40gr V-max at 3900 for varmints)
Ruger 243 All weather (just traded for this one, short and light)
custom 6mm Rem (70gr BT at 3824fps, also likes almost everything else, LR coyote killer)
264 win mag (140gr AB at 3000fps, all flatland big game)
new rifle I'm deciding on

What I don't have yet
Browning mountain TI 300WSM (180 or 200gr AB)
Ruger 375 Ruger (won't buy until I can forsee affording Africa or big bears)

 

[SJB358]

MC, I think you would be darned happy with a 270 shooting 140 AB's. As a mountain rifle for deer, I am not sure it gets a whole lot better. Great cartridge that has a great history. Plus, since you are shooting the .277 140, you get a little extra BC. Sounds like it'll be a great combo. Getting a better deal on it just makes it all the better.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I haven't been able to reach 3k fps with the 140 AB in my 22" .270 barrels. I keep getting pressure signs whenever I break the 2925 threshold. I've used H4831, I4350 and I4064. I'm going to give RL-22 a whirl this spring. I did work up to 2980fps fairly easily with a friend's 24" barrel using I4350 but it was over max with no pressure indications. I haven't seen any clue that 2850fps isn't enough velocity to handle anything that lives in the upper reaches though.

I wouldn't be afraid to turn that .243 into a 7mm-08. You can usually get away with a 20-22" barrel with little velocity impact and you can easily reach 2800+ with a 140gr bullet. The only issue with that idea is that it is a long action, and you may as well use the length provided.

 

[mcseal2]

I just came in to grab my raingear and checked this again, it started sprinkling and checking cows on the ranger gets pretty wet.

I'm also going to call back and order my barrel now also. I was telling Dad about what chamberings I was looking at for his old gun this morning while we fed. He said he'd always wanted a 270 because his friends all had them. Dad only hunted deer one year in his life, and it didn't excite him much so he never bought one. He bought this 243 to shoot coyotes with when they got to hanging around during calving season. He thought he might have to shoot it some if I turned his old rifle into a 270. It made my decision easy which was good since I didn't seem to be able to make up my mind.

Thanks again for everyone's input and help. I'll keep you posted and get some pics when the project is complete.

 

[gerry]

Nothing wrong with a 270 at all, there was no wrong choice in all this with the cartridges you had to choose from.

 

[DrMike]

The .270 Win is a classic cartridge. You won't be deprived if that is what you own. It will do almost everything you could ever want.

 

[Guest]

I haven't been able to reach 3k fps with the 140 AB in my 22" .270 barrels. I keep getting pressure signs whenever I break the 2925 threshold. I've used H4831, I4350 and I4064. I'm going to give RL-22 a whirl this spring.

I'm also going to call back and order my barrel now also. I was telling Dad about what chamberings I was looking at for his old gun this morning while we fed. He said he'd always wanted a 270 because his friends all had them. Dad only hunted deer one year in his life, and it didn't excite him much so he never bought one. He bought this 243 to shoot coyotes with when they got to hanging around during calving season. He thought he might have to shoot it some if I turned his old rifle into a 270. It made my decision easy which was good since I didn't seem to be able to make up my mind.

Two things come to mind here. First off, mcseal, you can't better justification for that rifle to become a 270Win than what you just got. It will make an already sentimental rifle even more so in the long run. And trust me on this, shoot, hunt, work, sit, talk, whatever, with your dad as much as you can while he's here. I miss mine every day and wish I'd spent more time with him when I was too stupid to know better. As for the barrel, you might try getting Pac-Nor to duplicate the contour of that Colt Light Rifle you had. Those are 24" barrels (I have one in 30-06 and wish I'd known you were selling your 7mm!) and the gun comes in well under 8lbs with scope and all, even with a 2+ pound stock. I've got about 7.5lbs for mine, loaded and ready to roll. It's wearing a 13oz 3-9x40 scope and carries like a dream. Of course, I don't really notice the weight of my 9+lb 270Wby when I'm afield. Yet.

@Catskill - You might take a look at Accurate MagPro. There is data available for 130gr and 150gr bullets (from 24" barrels) showing 3200+ with 130gr and right at 3000fps for 150gr. That tells me you should be able to get something like 3125fps for a 140gr out of a 24" barrel. Even figuring you lose 100fps for the 2" length difference, you're still over 3000fps. And that will be one flat hammer, I suspect, for deer and other thin-skinned game. I've not used MagPro in a 270Win, but I've used it in a 270Wby with good results in both velocity and accuracy.

 

[Mighty Peace]

same as the main vote........280AI with 140- or 160gr Accubonds
:mrgreen:

I'm very tempted to build one on a Sako m75 action :mrgreen:

 

[PJGunner]

This thread has been an interesting read as right now I'm going through the agony of deciding what my next build will be. I already have a nice piece of walnut for the stock. Nothing supremely fancy but nice color and some nice grain pattern. Being the Mauser loony that I am, the FN style Husqvarna 640 I have will be the donor. That action is so slick that it comes quite close to the old 1903 Mannlicher I once had. Barrel will probably be a Douglas as I've had great results with them on my other builds. I just have not decided what cartridge to go with on this one. No big deal as I still have to save up the coin to do the job. :lol:

While the agonizing was going on, I was thiking of just suggesting the plain old .280 Rem. With that, one could go up to 175 gr. bullets for elk and moose and not have too much of a problem. I would have gone with a 23" barrel as two of my builds have that length and any velocity loss has been negligable. (Did I spell that right? :?: ) My .280 build has a 24" barrel and it's heavy enough that you can call it a flat land or plains rifle. I'm thinking of having my gunsmith flute the barrel but that's a project for another time.

As you have apparently decided on the .270, not a bad choice at all, all I will add is I have four rifles in .270. Dunno how it worked out that way but it just did. Three have 24" barrels and the Ruger #1A has a 22" barrel. I've noticed two things with these rifles. One, all four have been more accurate with 150 gr. bullets and two, with the right powder very good velocity can be attained. The Ruger is the least accurate of the grop doing 1.25" on average. The ywo mausers, both commercial FNs and a Winchester M70 XTR are sub-MOA with the 150 gr. Sierra Game King and right at or slightly under one inch with the Nosler Partition. The Sierras do 2930 FPS and the Noslers 2950 FPS from the 24" barrels. Brass is Winchester, primers Winchester standard WLR and the powder is the sadly long discontinued Winchester Magnum Rifle (WMR) powder. I was lucky enough to find a decent supply before it completely disappeared. :mrgreen:
I dropped the use of 130 gr. bullets because I feel they damage too much good eating meat, should a shot not go quite where it should. I felt even the 130 gr. Partitons were too destructive.
I took my M70 on my first and only antelope hunt with the 150 gr. Sierras as I've always read and heard how they require long range shooting. Guess I got lucky as my stalk got me to about 75 yards from my animal and I'm thinking that bullet is gonna do too much damage at this distance. Well I hit the "goat" right behind the ribs and the bullet exited just behind the right shoulder. He ran in a short 30 foot half circle and expired. Very little meat damage and a pretty head for my wall.
I have to admit my experience with the .270 is very thin. Two deer, a couple of coyotes and my antelope. We'll just have to see how I do on the draws for deer, antelope and elk this year. I haven't drawn for antelope in my "home" state in the 34 years since I moved here. My last draw for elk was 8 years ago and it's now 7 years for deer. :evil: My goat was in 2009 and my cow elk in 2010, both hunts in New Mexico. If I don't draw this year I'll probably do another cow elk hunt. That was some fine eating meat. I'll probably stick to my .35 Whelen for that hunt though. it's a late season landowner type hunt and the elk are very spooky. I want something that hits hard right now. Guess old Elmer wasn't so dumb after all. :mrgreen:
Paul B.

 

[mcseal2]

My Granddad, Dad, and I all work together on the family ranch so we get to spend lots of time together. Like any family we have our moments, but we get along really well considering the number of hours we spend together each day. I worked in town for 4 years out of college which helped me to appreciate the people and lifestyle I get on the ranch. Dad wanted me to get a town job for a few years for the experience and because the market wasn't that great when I graduated. It was a good experience and I got to see some places and do some things that wouldn't have been possible with the 7 day a week schedule of ranchwork.

I got the barrel ordered this morning. I got a #3 contour Pac Nor barrel that will come in as a 26" blank, but contoured to be .625 for the #3 contour at 24". My gunsmith can chop it there and add the recessed crown I like. It should weigh 2.76lbs according to their barrel weight calculator with 8 flutes 17" long. With that and the Mcmillian Hunters Edge stock, finished weight should be at 133.8oz or 8.36lbs including scope, sling, and ammo. That should be real managable and it may even slide in a shade lighter as I may have estimated heavy on the stock and rings. I was shooting for 8lbs but I decided this is a good compromise staying with the scope and barrel contour I wanted. I didn't want to let it affect my decision of what I really wanted so I waited until now to inventory my 270 loading components and building it saved me some money. I have over 400 pieces of brass and 13 partial boxes of 270 bullets in 130-150gr weights to work up loads with. In brass alone it will save me big time. Also I have the 2 turrets for my CDS scope already set up for the 140gr AccuBond at 3000fps from my WSM that I can use if the rifle cooperates. Now the waiting begins.


Thanks again everyone.

 

[gerry]

Mcseal2, I have the same contour Pac Nor on my 264 WM, I'm sure you will like it a lot. The gunsmith that put it together took a bit off the back end to cut some weight, it is 1.5" from the bolt face to where the taper begins insead of 3" on Pac Nor's website, the muzzle measures .620" I went with a 24 " barrel as well. That's one more option and a way to drop a bit of weight off the barrel if you want. Sounds like you are well set up already for the 270 with all the components you have.

 

[JD338]

mcseal2,

The 270 Win will make for an excellent deer rifle and maybe even more.

Enjoy the build project and keep us posted with the progress.

JD338

 

[muleman]

MC,
Since your going with the 270(excellent choice) you should know that SPS has a small # of 140NAB 2nds availible right now. Time to stock up!
Scott

 

[IdahoCTD]

I think High Tech (which sold out to Basner and then started making stocks again) and Basner both make stocks for the model 70 too. They are LIGHT! You might check them out too if you want it as light as possible. I have a few for Remington's and they almost seem fake they are so light.

 

[mcseal2]

Thanks guys, I'll check out those High Tech stocks, and the 140gr 2nds.