Hodgdon replied back

[TackDriver284]

Called and left a message within the IMR website concerning the Enduron powders that went bad a few weeks ago, got an email back and they asked for pictures and sent those to them. Haven't heard from them since, called them again and they asked for another email since the other guy was supposedly on vacation according to the 2nd person and left another email with pictures, no response since. So I emailed again and asked if I was being ignored after calling and speaking with them and after sending them 2 emails, he apologized and mentioned that the powders go bad with heat.
My garage is divided into 2 sections, one side where the A/C duct is connected and is 75 degrees. It's where I keep my powder and other items and the 2nd section which is the 2 car garage is where I have my reloading bench, and tools, etc and the temps are around 80-85 in the summer. Not sure if 75 degrees has that much of an effect since no powder other than Enduron and one can of IMR 4831 went bad in my last 25 years of reloading. The guy said that they did not have any Enduron 7977 at the moment, and asked me I wanted any other powders besides that, since H1000 almost has the same burn rate as the 7977, so I asked for the H1000 since its very popular and temp stable. A package arrived at my door just now and in it was 3 lbs of H1000. As of last week, I relocated all my powder and primers to a closet next to my office where its 70 degrees.
Thank you Hodgdon.

 

[DrMike]

Good to see them step up.

 

[JD338]

That's awesome Mark. Good to see Hodgdon wanting to make it right for you.

JD338

 

[AFG270]

Good deal!

 

[RL338]

Now that’s funny no 7977 but they have H1000.

 

[bdbrown66]

I'm glad you got a replacement, but I'm calling BS on the root cause. If 85-degree heat was enough to make powder go bad, mine would have expired long ago. And I've used IMR 4166 for a number of years now.

 

[Lazy Bushman]

Your temps are not the reason for powder going bad. I spent the first 38 years of my life in Townsville where during summer, the temp is regularly around 95 as an average with nights getting down to 82 and never had powder issues. I've also lived in Wellington, NZ where top temperatures in Winter might get to 35 if your lucky, again no issues with powder going off. I've never experienced issues with primers either. Are you keeping your powder stored in the original containers? Are the lids on tight? Temperature has little effect on powder (for the most part), but rather moisture is the big powder killer. One of my powders that I am currently using is from a bottle I opened about 12 years ago and still going strong. Did the powder start off good and go bad or was it bad when you opened it?

 

[TackDriver284]

Your temps are not the reason for powder going bad. I spent the first 38 years of my life in Townsville where during summer, the temp is regularly around 95 as an average with nights getting down to 82 and never had powder issues. I've also lived in Wellington, NZ where top temperatures in Winter might get to 35 if your lucky, again no issues with powder going off. I've never experienced issues with primers either. Are you keeping your powder stored in the original containers? Are the lids on tight? Temperature has little effect on powder (for the most part), but rather moisture is the big powder killer. One of my powders that I am currently using is from a bottle I opened about 12 years ago and still going strong. Did the powder start off good and go bad or was it bad when you opened it?

Yes, all my powders stays in the original containers until empty and I discard the containers.
Yes, all lids are always tight and always kept dry.
Those Endurons were never opened, the 4166 had a huge hole on side of the can and once I opened the seal, there was a rustic color fumes in the cans of the 4166 and 7977. The seal crumbled when I touched the seal on the 7977 to remove it, and it all crumbled into the can. The old IMR4831 was opened a few times, but i had it for like 20 years, it was that old metal can.

 

[Lazy Bushman]

wow....looks like a chemical reaction.

 

[DrMike]

Yes, all my powders stays in the original containers until empty and I discard the containers.
Yes, all lids are always tight and always kept dry.
Those Endurons were never opened, the 4166 had a huge hole on side of the can and once I opened the seal, there was a rustic color fumes in the cans of the 4166 and 7977. The seal crumbled when I touched the seal on the 7977 to remove it, and it all crumbled into the can. The old IMR4831 was opened a few times, but i had it for like 20 years, it was that old metal can.

Pretty dramatic evidence of a chemical instability.

 

[bdbrown66]

I think there was just a bad batch of powder. Something caused it to turn acidic, which is what ate thru the lid. No way that's heat, IMO.

 

[FOTIS]

Glad they took care of it.

 

[SJB358]

That's pretty cool they took care of you like that Mark.

In all my years I haven't lost a pound of powder, yet. At today's prices I'd likely shed tears.

 

[bdbrown66]

I'm glad you got a replacement, but I'm calling BS on the root cause. If 85-degree heat was enough to make powder go bad, mine would have expired long ago. And I've used IMR 4166 for a number of years now.

Well, I have to take a mea culpa on this one. Turns out that both of my cans of 4166 have spoiled. It was the last that I had of that powder, which had given me some very good results. I'm sad to lose it. I have one opened can of 4451, but it appears to be ok for right now. I will definitely be keeping an eye on it, maybe try to use it up sooner rather than later. I'll be contacting Hodgdon about the 4166 and see if they'll hook me up with something else.

Y'all can shout mean words at me for being W-R-O-N-G, lol.

 

[jimbires]

talking about the enduron powders , I don't think it's a matter of "IF" it goes bad , it's more a matter of "WHEN" it goes bad . my opinion is , it should have been all recalled .

it's got to be a bad chemistry issue . too many guys having this problem . a problem never seen before . we've all seen rusty powder , but never the lids ate off the cans .

I wonder if anyone has loaded ammo , that has sat for years , eating the brass case , or eating the bullet base . or attacking the primers . eating the brass case , or primer , would also be a bad situation .

if this reaction is due to the coating breaking down , that controls the burn , this could be bad .

 

[TackDriver284]

talking about the enduron powders , I don't think it's a matter of "IF" it goes bad , it's more a matter of "WHEN" it goes bad . my opinion is , it should have been all recalled .

it's got to be a bad chemistry issue . too many guys having this problem . a problem never seen before . we've all seen rusty powder , but never the lids ate off the cans .

I wonder if anyone has loaded ammo , that has sat for years , eating the brass case , or eating the bullet base . or attacking the primers . eating the brass case , or primer , would also be a bad situation .

if this reaction is due to the coating breaking down , that controls the burn , this could be bad .

I had some old ammo that sat for years, it had green residue on outside rim of primers, on shoulders of cases, and from base of bullets / case mouths. I have discarded the whole batch for good. Dropped them in a bucket of water, and disposed of properly.

 

[Orezona]

talking about the enduron powders , I don't think it's a matter of "IF" it goes bad , it's more a matter of "WHEN" it goes bad . my opinion is , it should have been all recalled .

it's got to be a bad chemistry issue . too many guys having this problem . a problem never seen before . we've all seen rusty powder , but never the lids ate off the cans .

I wonder if anyone has loaded ammo , that has sat for years , eating the brass case , or eating the bullet base . or attacking the primers . eating the brass case , or primer , would also be a bad situation .

if this reaction is due to the coating breaking down , that controls the burn , this could be bad .

"I wonder if anyone has loaded ammo , that has sat for years , eating the brass case , or eating the bullet base . or attacking the primers . eating the brass case , or primer , would also be a bad situation ."

This, in my opinion, is a legitimate question and concern.

 

[salmonchaser]

I hadn’t spent more than passing interest in this when the thread started as I’ve never used it. Going thru the recent comments I’d be pouring it the lawn, maybe just the edge of the driveway. At what age does it go bad?

 

[bdbrown66]

talking about the enduron powders , I don't think it's a matter of "IF" it goes bad , it's more a matter of "WHEN" it goes bad . my opinion is , it should have been all recalled .

it's got to be a bad chemistry issue . too many guys having this problem . a problem never seen before . we've all seen rusty powder , but never the lids ate off the cans .

I wonder if anyone has loaded ammo , that has sat for years , eating the brass case , or eating the bullet base . or attacking the primers . eating the brass case , or primer , would also be a bad situation .

if this reaction is due to the coating breaking down , that controls the burn , this could be bad .

I think I have a box or two of loaded ammo with the 4166. I'm planning to pull the bullets and dump the powder.

 

[RememberBaker]

It might be interesting to cut a case or two in half after you do to see if the brass has corroded inside.