Hunting Rifle Accuracy, what's "good enough" ?

[usmc 89]

Shooting past the 500 yard mark puts the shooter in the moa bracket not the rifle. Meaning a half moa rifle will quickly become a 3 moa rifle if the guy behind it isn't up to the task. Just my opinion.

 

[Guy Miner]

A large portion of the game I shoot is short distance as well but when I need to I shoot things at long range I'm prepared. In the last 2 years I have shot 2 elk under 150yds, one elk under 250yds, a antelope at 513yds, and a deer at 1006yds. If you add the year before that I shot a elk at just over 400yds.

Then for you sir, shooting game at 500 & 1000 yards, of course you need a rifle with match-grade accuracy! :grin:

The rest of us poor slobs are fine with our standard MOA or so rifles! :mrgreen:

I make a lot more difference by tuning up the shooter, than by tuning up the rifle or load.

Regards, Guy

 

[Vince]

A large portion of the game I shoot is short distance as well but when I need to I shoot things at long range I'm prepared. In the last 2 years I have shot 2 elk under 150yds, one elk under 250yds, a antelope at 513yds, and a deer at 1006yds. If you add the year before that I shot a elk at just over 400yds.

Then for you sir, shooting game at 500 & 1000 yards, of course you need a rifle with match-grade accuracy! :grin:

The rest of us poor slobs are fine with our standard MOA or so rifles! :mrgreen:

I make a lot more difference by tuning up the shooter, than by tuning up the rifle or load.

Regards, Guy

If one is tuning up the load, and testing it at the range wouldn't they also be tuning up, as the shooter, given that they are shooting more?

Vince

 

[Razorbacker]

Like everyone else, I like these hunting camp, campfire discussions. I also like how guys explain why they're very demanding based on the conditions they hunt in.
Personally, as much as I strive for bughole groups, that's mostly just a confidence builder.

Last season I shot 2 deer, both about 30 yards away. I saw them farther away than that but the wind was right so I knew they'd walk right up to me, and they did.

A few years ago, my wife decided she wanted to hunt, so I bought her a rifle and got her all dialed in. Then I took some 9" paper plates and stapled to the 100 yard target backer. She struggled to hit them from field positions. So then i did it. I did okay i guess But standing on my hind legs i hit the paper plate but the word group would not apply. But the animal would still have been down.
We've started over and are building her confidence with field expedient rests.
Anyway, to answer the OP's question, i guess it depends on how you hunt,

I know the thread title is rifles but I also enjoy handgun hunting. For me with my aging eyes and iron sights playing card size groups work for me. Model 29 4" and a Bisley in .45LC.
But I've recently purchased a .454 Casull i plan on scoping so i will expect better groups.

 

[usmc 89]

A large portion of the game I shoot is short distance as well but when I need to I shoot things at long range I'm prepared. In the last 2 years I have shot 2 elk under 150yds, one elk under 250yds, a antelope at 513yds, and a deer at 1006yds. If you add the year before that I shot a elk at just over 400yds.

Then for you sir, shooting game at 500 & 1000 yards, of course you need a rifle with match-grade accuracy! :grin:

The rest of us poor slobs are fine with our standard MOA or so rifles! :mrgreen:

I make a lot more difference by tuning up the shooter, than by tuning up the rifle or load.

Regards, Guy

If one is tuning up the load, and testing it at the range wouldn't they also be tuning up, as the shooter, given that they are shooting more?
Yes and no. Yes if your shooting from a bench while you hunt, No if your shooting from the ground off a bipod, sitting, kneeling, or offhand which are generally the positions employed while hunting. Your point of impact will change from one position to the next due to recoil impulse and mass behind the rifle. Obviously your bench zero and your bipod prone will be similar in regards to predictable impact, but your kneeling, and sitting will tend to shoot high because of the recoil impulse and lack of linear mass behind the rifle. At least that is what i have experienced. This gets even more noticeable when shooting the larger rifles.Off hand is a whole other issue I try to avoid at all costs. Just my opinion and experience.

 

[nvbroncrider]

A large portion of the game I shoot is short distance as well but when I need to I shoot things at long range I'm prepared. In the last 2 years I have shot 2 elk under 150yds, one elk under 250yds, a antelope at 513yds, and a deer at 1006yds. If you add the year before that I shot a elk at just over 400yds.

Then for you sir, shooting game at 500 & 1000 yards, of course you need a rifle with match-grade accuracy! :grin:

The rest of us poor slobs are fine with our standard MOA or so rifles! :mrgreen:

I make a lot more difference by tuning up the shooter, than by tuning up the rifle or load.

Regards, Guy

If one is tuning up the load, and testing it at the range wouldn't they also be tuning up, as the shooter, given that they are shooting more?
Yes and no. Yes if your shooting from a bench while you hunt, No if your shooting from the ground off a bipod, sitting, kneeling, or offhand which are generally the positions employed while hunting. Your point of impact will change from one position to the next due to recoil impulse and mass behind the rifle. Obviously your bench zero and your bipod prone will be similar in regards to predictable impact, but your kneeling, and sitting will tend to shoot high because of the recoil impulse and lack of linear mass behind the rifle. At least that is what i have experienced. This gets even more noticeable when shooting the larger rifles.Off hand is a whole other issue I try to avoid at all costs. Just my opinion and experience.

Good point Jeff. I agree with you 100%. The extra shooting and confidence does wonders I feel. Tonight I shot my 338 standing for the first time got a rabbit at 150 yards on an idling quad 30 mins after sunset with that said I'd be very confident in shooting an elk at 300 yards standing. The recoil impulse was much different with a lot more muzzle jump than I realized. But if you doubt yourself you will never make the shot. I love to practice out of standard positions it instills confidence in the shooter and his equipment but while hunting if I have a choice I will get in the most stable position I can to take a shot. Just takes one more variable outta the question.

 

[SJB358]

Yes and no. Yes if your shooting from a bench while you hunt, No if your shooting from the ground off a bipod, sitting, kneeling, or offhand which are generally the positions employed while hunting. Your point of impact will change from one position to the next due to recoil impulse and mass behind the rifle. Obviously your bench zero and your bipod prone will be similar in regards to predictable impact, but your kneeling, and sitting will tend to shoot high because of the recoil impulse and lack of linear mass behind the rifle. At least that is what i have experienced. This gets even more noticeable when shooting the larger rifles.Off hand is a whole other issue I try to avoid at all costs. Just my opinion and experience.

Jeff nailed exactly what I was going to say. It is enlightening to get off the bench, throw in a hasty sling and lay over your day pack at the range. I almost always go to the ground in order to get the real zero on my rifles as shooting with the sling and on the ground tends to change my zero almost exactly as Jeff has mentioned.

 

[Guy Miner]

If one is tuning up the load, and testing it at the range wouldn't they also be tuning up, as the shooter, given that they are shooting more?

Vince

No. Most load/rifle tweaking is done from a bench, to eliminate human error and make that rifle/ammo combo as accurate as possible.

My shooter tune-up includes a LOT of offhand, kneeling, sitting and prone practice. That's where I put my emphasis, on my marksmanship skills.

That's of course after I'm happy with the rifle, scope and ammo, from the bench. I don't spend a lot of time at the bench.

As hunting season approaches, I'll use a steel gong at 100, 200 & 300 yards. Typically using my .308 or .30-06, and fire 50 rounds over the course of an hour or two in the morning. By the time hunting season rolls around, every week I'm shooting 50 rounds at 300 yards with my hunting rifle:

10 prone
10 sitting
10 kneeling
20 standing

I'll also do other drills, like quick reaction stuff. Bringing the rifle up from carry position & taking a snap shot at that steel target at 50 yards or more. Good fun, and really sharpens up the ol skills. Makes me a better shot in the field.

I've based my rifle practice on what I do when I hunt, as well as decades of USMC & SWAT experience.

Regards, Guy

 

[SJB358]

I've based my rifle practice on what I do when I hunt, as well as decades of USMC & SWAT experience.

Regards, Guy

So when you say decades????... :lol:

 

[Guy Miner]

Yes... My knees tell me it's been decades... :mrgreen:

 

[alaska100]

If one is tuning up the load, and testing it at the range wouldn't they also be tuning up, as the shooter, given that they are shooting more?

Vince

No. Most load/rifle tweaking is done from a bench, to eliminate human error and make that rifle/ammo combo as accurate as possible.

My shooter tune-up includes a LOT of offhand, kneeling, sitting and prone practice. That's where I put my emphasis, on my marksmanship skills.

That's of course after I'm happy with the rifle, scope and ammo, from the bench. I don't spend a lot of time at the bench.

As hunting season approaches, I'll use a steel gong at 100, 200 & 300 yards. Typically using my .308 or .30-06, and fire 50 rounds over the course of an hour or two in the morning. By the time hunting season rolls around, every week I'm shooting 50 rounds at 300 yards with my hunting rifle:

10 prone
10 sitting
10 kneeling
20 standing

I'll also do other drills, like quick reaction stuff. Bringing the rifle up from carry position & taking a snap shot at that steel target at 50 yards or more. Good fun, and really sharpens up the ol skills. Makes me a better shot in the field.

I've based my rifle practice on what I do when I hunt, as well as decades of USMC & SWAT experience.

Regards, Guy

excellent post----+ 1

we shoot a lot more animals at under 200 yards than over 200 yards and in one of the positions Guy listed. When shooting a pissed off coastal grizzly at 50 yards or less, minute of dead is all your thinking about

 

[Vince]

Once I find my load I get off the bench but if working with a new shooter, and something I do myself, is focus on the fundamentals while at the bench so I contend that the bench can help to improve accuracy.
Breathing, sight picture, and trigger control can be practiced from the bench and are required skills no matter the shooting position.


Vince

 

[Elkman]

"Off hand is a whole other issue I try to avoid at all costs. Just my opinion and experience."

After you posted that I have been thinking about my last offhand shot. It has really been a long time. I know that I have killed several elk at under 50 yards and a couple closer than that, and those were offhand, but they were years ago. For anything in and around the 100-150 range I am usually off one knee, two of those in the last three years. But as my average range is in and around the 300 yard mark most have been killed prone. Without my notes it's hard for me to remember but say in the last five years, it breaks down like this. 1 sitting, 2 kneeling, 6 prone.
All of my deer in that time period have been killed off hand 1 rifle, 6 bow. I will go to the ground if I have a chance, every time.

note: All of the deer have been less than 40 yards.

 

[Vince]

I always try to find the most stable position I can given the conditions presented.

 

[big rifle man]

I shoot from the bench just long enough to insure proper zero. From that point the sitting and kneeling positions get the practice. I do practice offhand but use it only as a last resort.

 

[Guy Miner]

I always try to find the most stable position I can given the conditions presented.

Good call!

Shot my pronghorn from standing at 160 yards when he made the mistake of pausing to look back. Guess he thought I might be chasing him! :grin:

Informally reviewing the past 10 or 20 years of hunting, I've likely shot most animals from sitting, a very few from prone (seldom seem to be able to get above intervening grass, brush, fallen trees, etc from prone), a couple from kneeling, and what might be considered a surprising number from standing. Those are usually when I "jump" an animal out of its bed and get a snap shot at it. If I didn't practice all those positions regularly (often with a .22, or even dry fire) I wouldn't be so confident in using them.

Rockchucks, prairie dogs, ground squirrels... All make great targets of opportunity during the off season and help keep a marksman sharp. I need to go find a few rockchucks to pop...

USMC and NRA High Power require shooting from standing (200 yds) as well as shooting from sitting and prone. USMC also required kneeling. I am a law enforcement and NRA rifle instructor as well. Guess that's why I'm comfortable with using the different positions. Except for kneeling! Even when I was younger, I had a tough time with kneeling. Got off my motorcycle unexpectedly once, and the knee has never been the same.

Regards, Guy

 

[usmc 89]

I do practice the standing quite often, most matches will have a offhand station in them. I still only use offhand in a hunting scenario as a last resort. Coyote hunting does promote the use of off hand "hail mary" shots, this generally occurs after shooting one from a solid position then taking the running off hand pot shot on the mate. I would guess I am at about 6% success rate on such shots.

 

[Oldtrader3]

The last deer that I killed offhand was an easy 150 yard shot about 12 years ago with my .270 Win, DRT. Normally I try to shoot with either a shooting stick or Trainfire sitting position.