IMR 4350

high desert elk · Jul 3, 2008

I was talking to a guy who works at a local sporting goods store in the reloading section. He mentioned that IMR 4350 doesn't perform as good in really cold weather (a semi-auto gun he has in particular). Has anyone heard of this or expereined it? I haven't, at least to my knowlegde.

thanks

HDE

Greg Nolan · Jul 4, 2008

high deset elk,
I've used IMR 4350 for over 40 years and I've found it to be the most reliable, consistant powder, at all tempretures, there is. I've used most all of the other available brands and types of powder. IMR 4350 has always been the (GO-TO) powder for 30-06 to 300 WBY to 338 Win. mag. loads. That being said, I've never used it in a semi auto. I would honestly be shocked if it weren't consistant enough for a load used in a semi-auto.
I'm sorry I can't speak from experience about semi-auto use but the powder has been as accurate and the burn rate as consistant at 8,000 ft. in deep snow (freezing) conditions as it is a sea leval 70 degrees where I sighted in. This may sound like an advertisement but it's not. It's born of experience.
Check it out before you give up on it. There is NO other powder I would say this about!!!

Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

craiger40 · Jul 4, 2008

High desert elk,

IMR 4350 is actually a little more Temperature sensitive than some powders. All powder is somewhat affected by temp and i will tell you RL-22 is extremely sensitive. Temperature sensitivity is the exact reason why Hodgdon has made the extreme powders! As mentioned before do not discount IMR 4350 because it is a very good powder in all the loads i have ever used it for. You could buy the Hodgdon extreme version of 4350 known as H4350 it is very close to the burn rate of the IMR powder. If you have IMR 4350 right now do not hesitate to use it just learn how it reacts at different temps.

rick smith · Jul 4, 2008

I would bet the semi-auto was the problem not the powder. Moving parts in extreme cold do not move well unless they have been prepared properly. Most sporting goods clerks don't have a clue but do have an opinion. Been using IMR-4350 for years without the slightest problem.Rick.

FOTIS · Jul 4, 2008

craiger40":2d5ysc0g said:
High desert elk,

IMR 4350 is actually a little more Temperature sensitive than some powders. .

I found this also.

Ol` Joe · Jul 4, 2008

rick smith":344pse9z said:
I would bet the semi-auto was the problem not the powder. Moving parts in extreme cold do not move well unless they have been prepared properly. Most sporting goods clerks don't have a clue but do have an opinion. Been using IMR-4350 for years without the slightest problem.Rick.

I agree.

I`ve used a lot of IMR4350 in a bolt 30-06 and never hae been disapointed in its performance reguardless of temp.

JD338 · Jul 4, 2008

I've used IMR4350 for 30+ years and have never had a single problem with it.
I also used it in a M742 Carbine (18.5" barrel) 30-06 and shot sub MOA accuracy with it.
IMR4350 is an excellent powder. :wink:

JD338

russ808 · Jul 4, 2008

Have to agree with everybody. Its my main powder. Never had any type of problem with it.

bullet · Jul 4, 2008

Greg Nolan":c3t20hic said:
high deset elk,
I've used IMR 4350 for over 40 years and I've found it to be the most reliable, consistant powder, at all tempretures, there is. I've used most all of the other available brands and types of powder. IMR 4350 has always been the (GO-TO) powder for 30-06 to 300 WBY to 338 Win. mag. loads. That being said, I've never used it in a semi auto. I would honestly be shocked if it weren't consistant enough for a load used in a semi-auto.
I'm sorry I can't speak from experience about semi-auto use but the powder has been as accurate and the burn rate as consistant at 8,000 ft. in deep snow (freezing) conditions as it is a sea leval 70 degrees where I sighted in. This may sound like an advertisement but it's not. It's born of experience.
Check it out before you give up on it. There is NO other powder I would say this about!!!

Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

+1 very well said, yes, truly born of experience with me also, IMR4350 not enough could be said in it's favor.

spires5d · Jul 4, 2008

Been using IMR4350 in my 7Mag. and I haven't ran into any problems. I'm using it with Nosler 150 gr. ballistic tip and also 160 gr. Partition. Don't be turned away from it.

Noslers Rock!

big rifle man · Jul 5, 2008

Hi desert, I don't want to rock the boat but IMR4350 is not the ideal powder for a semi auto. The burn rate of the powder verses the cycle rate of the gas piston are not to compatible. I had a personal experience with a 30.06 auto and IMR4350 in Maine, temperatures between 10 and 15 degrees. I loaded a box of ammo for my uncle with IMR4350 and 165 grain bullets. He had a problem with cycling and I subsequently called a friend at Sierra Bullets. I switched the powder to both 4895 and 4064 and solved the cycling problem. If I remember correctly the M1 Garand doesn't like 4350 to the point where you can damage the operating mechanism. I think POP my be able to shed further light on this.

Ol` Joe · Jul 5, 2008

The Garand gas system isn`t set for slow powders such as the 4350s or R19. The ammo used by the military when the rifle was designed was loaded with 4895 and that is what was expected to be shot in them. The slower powders have too much gas pressure at the bleed port and will drive the gas piston too fast and can bend the operating rod.
Browning, I have been told, has their gas system in the BAR [civilian model] designed to except a wider pressure range and slower powders don`t effect it that badly. My BIL has used for yeqrs H4831 with 180 gr bullets in his BAR with out a problem in both Michigan and Colorado on yearly deer and elk hunts. It is a lot slower powder then IMR4350. He started quite a bit before the "extreem" powders were heard of.
Temps affect all IMR powders. I would expect 4895 to show similar pressure or velocity variations as 4350 with similar temps. Gas guns opperate with gas pressure working on a piston. Slower powders will almost always have more pressure then faster at the gas vent, and should be more robust in cycling it. Recoil opperated arms depend on the thrust of the cartridge against the breech to cycle. The velocity of the bullet not the pressure of the load determin this. If the gun is not braced firmly it MAY not function properly [limp wristing a 1911 for example] Maybe heavy clothing and soft pads work against them too?? just a though, I`m no engineer or expert.

I don`t doubt some have had a problem with the rifles in the cold I just find it hard to believe the powder used was the cause. :?

high desert elk · Jul 5, 2008

Thanks all for the responses. I personally have never experienced any problems with IMR 4350, which is why it was a "shocker" for me when I heard this. The elk I shot in Utah last year was in mid December at around 25 deg F that morning with fresh snow on the ground. The round performed just like back home sighting in.

It has been my powder of choice the past few years, although it doesn't hurt to try others to have a variety in case one comes scarce...

HDE

craiger40 · Jul 5, 2008

How about to much oil or lube in the action. You should never lube or oil a rifle that will be used in extremely cold weather(sub freezing). Just something to kick about.

ElkHunter · Jul 18, 2008

Craiger- what sort of issues do you experience with RL 22 in cold temps?

hubcap · Nov 9, 2008

Interesting subject for sure. I dug out an older model reloading book from speer copyright 1964. Speers reloading manual number-6 on page-82 contains a set of data on this very subject of how temperature effects progressive burning powders. The data by speers clearly indicates an average change in velocity of about 200 fps. from a low temp. of zero degrees to a high temp. of 100 degrees. The data also shows a bigger jump in velocity change from 60 degrees to 100 degrees than from o degrees to 50 degrees. Like most everyone else I love imr-4350. I,m sure of one thing, I don,t sight in my rifle at 100 degree tempertures and hunt in 0 degree temps. in Wa. state. Like most everyone else I won,t notice any change in point of impact under average fall hunting conditons. I guess I can see why a competitive target shooter may care about temperature changes. I can,t see any practicle reason for hunters to care much about this one. I don,t think I those big game critters notice a velocity change of 30 to 100 fps come kill time. :grin: :grin: :grin:

sask boy · Nov 13, 2008

I have used IMR 4350 in my 270 win for over 35 years and started to use it in the 7MM mag 2 years ago.
I have been shooting sub 1" in my 270 @ 100 yards for many years and last year using the same powder in the 7 mm mag I have got it under 1" as well.
I live in Saskatchewan and I do quite a bit of cold weather hunting like minus 20 or better and I have never had a problem.
I know many other people that use this powder and I have never heard a cold weather complaint.

hubcap · Nov 13, 2008

I never had a problem either sask boy. Like you I,ve been using IMR-4350 in the 270 and several other caibers for a very long time. I,m not about to stop now.

bobbyrum · Nov 13, 2008

high desert elk, up here in Manitoba, we could be hunting in 50 degrees one week and 10 degrees the next. I reload my brother's .30-06 with H4350 & my brother-in-law's 7MM Mag with US869. I tell them both not to go out in 70 degree weather to sight in when they may hunt in 25 degree weather. I did this one year huning antelope at 60 degrees in Wyoming & didn't resight before hunting deer in Manitoba at 20-25 degrees. Cost me a dandy buck at 200 yards. Bullet was hitting 6" low at 100 yards.

Whether it's a Hodgdon extreme powder or not, I think it's a good idea to try & sight in as close as you can to the temperatures in which you are going to hunt if possible.

hubcap · Nov 13, 2008

Good point there Mr. bobbyrum. I will hit the range tommorrow and check out the ole 06. It should be dead on at 100 yrds. I last sighted in around 75 degrees. It will be in the mid thirties Friday for my testing. Just so happens I have a bunch of IMR-4350 loads with 165 partitons to shoot. If I see any noteworthy changes in point of impact I,ll certainly post the info. I guess this whole question is going to cause me to blow the dust of the chrony and do some cold wheather speed checks too. This whole subject definitly has my curiosity up. Shoot alot - learn alot is a good thing. :roll: :roll: :roll: