Ist Post- My One Hunting Rifle Answer For All, I know!

[FNWhelen]

I just loved shooting peeps most of my life but now at age 69 and having had a torn retina in my shooting eye I need a scope. I just put a 1.75x5 Sitron on my whelen. So far I really like it but will have to se how well it holds up. I spent some time talking about this with the most famous bear guide I know. His take was after spending a lot of time comparing peeps with a low power scope he was faster with the scope. Made me feel better about going to a scope.

 

[xphunter]

I just don't hunt the really big game like Moose or Bison.
Elk is as big as I go, and me and my kids (When they were kids), have used a 14" 25 Creed and a 14" 260 Remington (MOA Maximum) to put down three elk-Each one shot.
The cow and the bull were each around 100ish yards while a really big cow was around 220ish with the 14" 25 Creed/Pachmayr Dominator.
You may have to give up certain shot presentations when shooting the smaller cartridges, but elk are NOT bullet proof.
Proper bullet for your task, and shot placement, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.............................................

For what I like to do, to only have one chambering, would more likely be a 6.5-284 or 6.5 Leopard (270 WSM necked down) or a 7mm Dakota.
The Dak is kinda of overkill for varmints and pd's, yet I have killed pd's past 1500 yards with one of my 7mm Dakota center-grip XP's.
I have killed a pd beyond a mile with one of my rear-grip 6.5-284's.
If, wanting to have distance for big game the Dak is King, from my two choices.
The 6.5-284 or the 6.5 Leopard limits me to elk at shorter distances (700ish...Tad further with the Leopard), but the 6.5-284 is so much more enjoyable for sustained shooting.
Since elk is only a small part of my hunting shooting experience, I would probably go with the 6.5-284 or the 6.5 Leopard.

 

[xphunter]

Left a small, but big word out in my original/previous post..."NOT"
Fixed it

 

[DrMike]

Left a small, but big word out in my original/previous post..."NOT"
Fixed it

Happens to all of us Ernie.

 

[wildcatter]

Finally a first look at the almost finished rifle, a tad shorter than I wanted at 21 1/2", but very pleased to see the finished weight! I wanted this to finish light below 7lbs without glass, looks like we more than tackled that goal!


I also put to rest to the all the "it will be to much recoil" hype,,,, what recoil!! Seriously, what recoil? I spent a lot of time researching stocks and how to get the best for handling recoil, the Peek 44 Blackford proved with the first shot @ 6lbs, with a 200 grain Hornady and 58.5 grains of Varget, to be the ideal option. I have never shot a 30-06 that shot this mild!


This was a 22" barrel, but after throating it it to my desired length for the 200, and 225grn. Nosler AB's, found a sc ratch he did not like in the chamber, so that was why we ended with a 21 1/2" barrel. He carefully recut the chamber to his satisfaction, and re-throated it for the loaded 225 AccuBond I sent with all the new hardware barrel and stock. I had it throated for the Ideal seating depth for the 200 grain, as that is my desired standard bullet I want to work with. It should be ideal for the 210 Swift Scirocco as well. Those are the two bullets i plan to use for most hunting. But I want to be able to use the 225 AB as well and this is not seated bellow the shoulder, which should give me enough room for H4350 to my desired pressure.

Yes the 200 grain Hornady was seated well off the lands, but was one of two rounds I loaded for test loads to begin with. Not to warm, but about .00075" expansion at that the head, showed seated to the lands, maybee close to max! I want close to .001" before I call it enough, and hopefully have good accuracy by then, if not, we try another powder. But as you see from the fired case, it is a perfect chamber. Now we have to hope the barrel is a keeper?

The rifle still needs final bedding or skim coating to complete the bedding, this will add less than an ounce when finished. But the big weight gain is going to be with the glass others have wanted to see. It might be compact, but it sure aint LIGHT! with the Vortex light 2 screw rings (Seeking), and the back Country one piece Leupold picatinny mount, that little 6 lbs rifle is going to gain 2 lbs! WOW


If this was not going to get the 257 AI barrel added to it later, the 25.6 oz Leica with its illuminated AMO reticle wouldn't be my choice. I would be using the Meopta Optica 6, 1-6x24 with it's BDC-3 Illuminated reticle instead, and I still my use that scope on the 338 and swap for the 257? I have one and love them, they are who Makes Zeiss sporting scopes up to and including the Conquest, V-4 and I believe V-6 line of scopes. Meopta is a huge surprise and big bang for your buck. They are true Top end reliable, and repeatable optics that will hang with any scope manufacturer on the market, as well as available in models with optics to match anything twice their price range!

But back to the 3-18x44ia Leica, It offers the shortest scope, with the best optics and smaller Objective than anything else available. even the 3x cost of the NF which offers slightly better optics, can't produce the field of view or compact size of this scope. I have run this scope thu the paces for repeatability, and the adjustments are dead on! Plus when moved and returned to zero, they can be counted on, with the best zero stop to boot! Illumination is unmatched for hunting in the lowest light. Nothing will adjust as low, and still give enough illumination in daylight for shooting into shadows. They will not dazzle those want pretty colors for full sun open country shooting! But for me that is not what I want from a hunting scope. At 71 years old, I can still get by in full sun with top optical quality as Leica is well known to provide!

So that's it for now. I haven't been around much on any of the forums, but am very busy fly fishing and hitting the road with the truck camper, hitting different regions around Ohio and Michigan Great Lakes Tributaries for anything from Steelhead to small mouth and everything in between. I just had to take a day to make a visit to my smiths for a feel and preview of what to expect here in the next week or two. But till the end of May or middle of June, I'll have the pedal to the metal, ( which aint full throttle anymore at my age in my condition) but still where my time is spent this time of year. Then I will be ready to dial this little big game getter in! Until then, this is all the eye candy I can offer.

 

[DrMike]

Excellent summation. There should always be time for fishing! Riflery and handloading won't go away. Sweet looking rig.

 

[xphunter]

Very nice set-up.
I like and use Meopta optics as well

 

[wildcatter]

Finally its finished, picked it up yesterday after final bedding, and got the scope mounted and started the breakin. I only have 8 shots thru it, and all are with the Max Varget Load for the 200 grain Hornady in the 338 A-Square load data in their manual. It is forming the case fully with sharp shoulders all in one shot. My only tweak before load development will be to have Fred take .002" off the shell holder for this set of dies. I am getting less than .001" shoulder bump with the case bottomed out in the Redding full length die. I want .0025" to .003" bump for a big game hunting round. But she is tight and a sweet shooter, gentle as I could ask for, it truly is a soft shooting stock. I just hope 1/2 to 3/4moa is in it's ability with the 200 or 210 grain AB or Sciroccos, either will make my #1 load if they can shoot under moa for three shots consistently?



Its starting to settle down on the copper fouling, hopefully 4 or 5 more shots and cleaning after each will do the job, the the fun begins,,, load development. I have high hopes for this rifle, and hope to get the 257 barrel before fall hunting season, and that will be the cartridge most used, but if not, hope to have a 180 grain load worked up for this for lighter duty till I get the 357 AI chambered barrel for this setup.

 

[wildcatter]

Day 3 and now a total of 12 single shots breaking in the Brux 1-10 Brux barrel while fire forming the 30/06 Lapua cases. First shot was solid coper from the throat to the muzzle, I mean a lot of copper. But by shot 4 the first 10 inches had pretty much cleaned up to just three wet patches of Butches Bore Shine 5 or 6 strokes of a bronze brush, followed by three more wet patches and two dry, to find only the last 11 inches or so still holding copper.

These loads are all using 57.5 grains of Varget and the 200 grain Hornady SST bullet. Giving me a perfect fire formed 338/06 AI case. By the time I had the 8th shot thru it those last 10 inches of barrel were starting to show light streaks of copper scattered down the bore. I used Iosso after cleaning with the 3 wet, 6 brushed, 3 wet and 2 dry patch regime, then a couple patches of Isso, and was ready for the next shot.

So after that I switched to JB patches after my normal 3 wet 5 brush 3 wet 2 dry normal cleaning, as the copper is getting more under control and barrel getting broke in. So after the tenth I loaded two of the 180 grain AB that I plan on finding a load for as my light load. I used the Varget with 59.0 grains, to fire form the 06 brass and run 2 shots for the first time from the clean barrel thru the Chrono Graph for the first time. I had to get a feel for just how much Velocity the little 21 3/8" barrel was capable of producing. I think I should be happy at 2901 and 2918 fps for the first and second shot, with no sign of to much pressure and room to go up from there.

St have put nothing on paper, as I wanted to be sure the barrel was going to cleanup, and it is starting to look good. So from here I will start using the still one shot and clean with 200 grain SST's till I see no copper, but will get the new 3-18 Leica sighted in, and the 50 rounds of brass formed for this rifle.

I have to say the last 2 shots with softer copper jackets fouled no more and maybe a little less the 10th round did alone with the SST. So I'm pretty happy with this gun so far. I am also very happy with how soft it shoots. Yes there is recoil, but I would have expected more and very easy on the shoulder with just a push and no harsh jump from the Blacktooth stock, and plenty of eye relief from the Leica when with a full view on 6X. I will see what the 225 AB do after a few more rounds and getting the scope zero'd over the next 3 or 4 shots.

But for now I am heading back east for some more Lake Erie Trib fishing, as the small mouth are starting to fill the rivers to spawn, so need to exercise the arm and put the flyrods to use for a dew days, besides Carter hasn't been getting much exercise the last few days, my fishing buddy.




All work and no play makes for a boring life, and we got all summer to get the new rifle up and running. But those Big smallies won't be around in big numbers for long. Then we'll ne ready for some bedding Bluegills on the fly to break the boredom from the rifle and keep everything more fun in a couple weeks. Versatility is the spice of life, and I'm trying to keep it fun@!

 

[DrMike]

I envy your time chasing those snallmouths!

 

[wildcatter]

Well I aint went back for the smallmouth yet, but I have had time to evaluate my efforts on the rifle! less than 50 shots thru it now, but after the above post I used 200 grain Hornady SST bullets to break in the barrel, over 58.0 grains and ww standard primers. This was just a guess that a max load for a standard 338/06 would make a good, one shot, perfect formed case, with Varget, as I had a little over 1/2 a pound can with a lot number different than my other Varget supply.

First time out, with the scope freshly mounted and only 5 rounds here were the last 3 shots, the one to the left I moved again resting over a cooler on my buddies bench resting my hand on a sand bag in front under the forearm, and my elbow in the back. I went to far, but wanted to see if the last shot went wher the one before it went. It looked pretty good, but I moved the scope back about 8 clicks left and went home to clean it.


The next day was our range maintenance day from 8am to noon. So I loaded 10 more with 58.0 grains, and 7 more with 57.5 grains. I had three cases left and was out of that lot of Varget. So I added 62 grains of H4350 ot the last 3 unfired cases topped with 180 grain Accubonds, and lit them with WW Magnum primers. Next day once range work was complete, I started out, it took 3 shots to finish zeroing the 3-18x44 Leica. Then on the bottom left bull I put the next 5 shots down range. I was happy, and I though this proved the last two shots from day 1. I also clocked that load,,, 2848 fps av. for all 5 shots.

But I wanted to see what a 1/2 grain lighter load would do, and with it starting to rain, I put one more of the 58.0 grain loads out to 200 on a freshly painted gong that morning. I held a tad low making sure I didn't shoot over it, and I thought when I seen it,"this thing hit right where I aimed? But then I cleaned it now with about 35 or so rounds thru the barrel, and it was still lightly coppering. I only needed 2 patches of JB after the
three wet patches
about 8 to 10 passes with a bronze brush
and then three more wet patches followed with two dri patches, my normal cleaning ritual.
After those two patches with JB bore paste I followed again with three wet, a few brush strokes, and three wet two dri. Then it was squeaky clean with the bore scope.

Back to the bench to shoot the 57.5 grain load, but wait, now in a steady rain,,,,, with a cool clean barrel, how reliable will this rifle be clean dry hot cool whatever. Important with a hunting rifle. So I shot the last cartridge I had loaded with the 58.0 grain load out of the cool clean barrel, right where I shot the 9th round earlier out of the hot fouled barrel on the 200 yard gong. I am super happy with this, both shots were withing 1/2" of each other. Thats at 200 yards with a hot fouled barrel, and one with a cool freshly cleaned barrel. This what I care about more than groups. It's a hunting rifle for big game, the first shot is what matters, and to have a rifle that will shoot 2850 fps with 200 grain bullets and hold the same point of impact clean, hot coll, dirty, is a relief!


Then I went back to the 100 yard target, top left bull and shot the 5 shot group with the 57.5 grain load. again under 1", firforming with a simple throw this in the case and seat to touch, and shoot. I can't wait to see how this will shoot with a tuned load? But It didn't stop there. I still the three cartridges with 62.0 grains of H4350 with WW mag primers to try with the 20 grain light 180 grain AccuBond. The top right bull and again for standing shooting with the gun on stools on top the bench, with my hand rested on the front bag and the rear resting on a bag forward and back for elevation. Close to a hunting hold, and again, 1" for those 3 shots, and the rain again had stopped for this group. I am delighted with this rifle, and can't explain how forgiving this 18 oz stock is, or how well it tames recoil!


Well now we'll so how long it takes to get the 210 Swift Scirocco II bullets. I am also going to find a load with 225 grain Accu Bonds. After talking with a fellow member on shooters forum, I will run with the 4350 for the 225's to begin with in my precious Lapua formed brass, with Federal 215M primers. The 210's when I get them will get the same treatment looking for a load, but will have Varget on hand as well. May the best powder win. But I more than ever now after a week breaking this rifle in, know, those 1/2 moa hunting loads are a real possibility, and I would think, the 3/4 moa are no doubt at worst!

I just wish every time I did my homework before deciding on a project, it would come out close to this good, as this has been more than I had hoped for at this time. The big bonus is, I'm not close to a hot load, and at 2850 fps, with a 21 3/8" barrel I have reached my goal of wanting to be able to hit 2850 fps with a 200 grain bullet, and under 1 MOA for 3 shots, I got it with 5 shot groups. Happy Happy Happy!!

 

[DrMike]

Very informative essay on your project. It would appear that you are drawing near to some acceptable results.

 

[wildcatter]

Very informative essay on your project. It would appear that you are drawing near to some acceptable results.

Thanks Mike, I am not the best at explaining things. But to your closing in response, I have some 180 AB that I have clocked at at 0ver 2900 with no signs of any pressure. Plus that load shot so soft and smooth, I am really thinking about maybe a 180 grain load. But the 200 and 210 is flatter shooting past 300 yards, and the farther out I compare them the 200's really make it more decisive, and retained energy is a big advantage as well.

The 225 is probably the heaviest I will look at for this rifle and probably more than I will ever need. But I will have a load for them just because? I have those on hand, and am pretty sure the H4350 will take them to the top end better than the other powders I am willing to work with. I won't use ball powder, and wont work with the faster stick powders that temp sensitive. H4350, Varget, and maybe the N140or N150 for the 225's, I'm thinking Varget for the 200's maybe H4350, N140. If I play with those 180's Im sure Varget, and N140 would work, as light as those bullets are I still think N135 pushing them close 3000 fps is possible.

But if the rain is done, I will get that trip back to the small mouth rivers in first. Its looking good right now thru the weekend and the first of next week. this could be perfect. But the weekend is my days to work around the house, let the weekend warriors that still have to work for a living have the lakes rivers and ranges. I 'll hit them task's Monday thru Friday where old farts operate their best and don't get in the way of those with their own agendas,,,,,,,

 

[DrMike]

I understand. I would think the 180s will do all you need, but I do understand leaning to the 200s. I wouldn'd think weights above 225s would perform as you want, so halting use of bullets of greater than 225 makes sense. All this to say the 200s are about an ideal compromise for what you envision. I lean to 200 grain pills in my 338 Federal, and they work quite well.

 

[Vince]

I understand. I would think the 180s will do all you need, but I do understand leaning to the 200s. I wouldn'd think weights above 225s would perform as you want, so halting use of bullets of greater than 225 makes sense. All this to say the 200s are about an ideal compromise for what you envision. I lean to 200 grain pills in my 338 Federal, and they work quite well.

I agree although if using the monolithic bullets I’d opt for the 180 or 185’s.

Vince

 

[wildcatter]

I'm no fan of monolith bullets, or any solid copper. I have seen way to many with unreliable results from time to time. Partition or Bonded are the only only hunting bullets I will trust. Even in my 454, the Swift A-Frames have proven 100% reliable results. I'm to old to start taking chances when or how my projectile will perform the way I expect. To old or to bull headed, but I built this rifle particularly for the bullets I stated.

 

[wildcatter]

I think I am ready to start load development, barrel has nearly eliminated any signs of copper between shots now, and even 3 to 5 shots are shows very little, and is cleaning easily and quickly. So since I had the new 257 Varmint rigg broke in and ready, I spent the day Wednesday at the range. Pretty miserable so in rain wind and fog patches floating thru now and then, I had it all to myself. With enough light rain to even get the groups shot over the chronograph.

I have never worked with the 338/06 let alone the Ackley before this. I simply made this decision to go this way from the lack of any bad press on this round, it also as I said before chosen over the 35 Whelen for two reasons, flatter shooting capability, as well as better bullet selection and better headspacing ability with slightly more shoulder. I also wanted this very light and compact, quick hadeling, and still be capable of getting good accuracy for out to 400 and 500 yards if needed.

I feel confident after this first outing with formed brass to see just how well this cartridge would perform in this compact of a package? I personally think this is the luckiest I have ever been building a rifle with never used components and cartridge for a specific purpose! The 338/06 AI was absolutely the perfect choice for my big game rifle! It performed better than I even had hoped it would! Now this is only the first tests with the formed brass, as well as bonded bullets, even one of the powders. I loaded H4350, obviously to slow for the 180 grain bullets I had on hand, but it sure proved to be a very accurate rifle, even being loaded with such an undesirable powder for this weight projectile!

But the Varget, that I had a good idea would be one of the best powders I would use, showed it is quite capable of not just decent velocity, with good powder fill in this case, but outstanding accuracy well above anything I was willing to settle for! I only had 3 cases loaded with the 180 grain this outing, but luck, or whatever, I have a 180 grain AccuBond load on the very first attempt! Plus I have confirmation the H4350 is to slow for this rifle with this light of bullet. But here is the first load development target, shot in the mid 50 degree temps in true hunting conditions!


the left side were one group center from a clean barrel with 63.5 grains of H4350, and Federal 215 primers seated to touch the lands. the very first shot from the cold barrel was the first shot just left of my aiming point, which was holding 6 O'clock on the center bull. I then moved up to the top left bull and shot single 64.5 grains load I had, with the same 6 O'clock aiming point. This would have been touching the last shots with the 63.5 grain load! Finally the last load I changed my hold to the center of the square, as it was raining a little harder, and again all 5 shots with the 2 full grains difference would have impacted close enough to the same point of impact to hold that 1/2" group from the 3 shots I put on the first target with 63.5 grains.

The important thing I got from this first test with the 4350 was I have shot 45 rounds with 3 or 4 different loads with 2 different powders, Varget and N-135 fireforming the brass, and breaking in the barrel, while seeing how well every one of those loads, all with the 200 grain SST bullet, held the same point of impact, as well as, none shot over 1" groups, even when I shot 5 shots. The last time out when I shot the 5 shot groups and finished the barrel breakin, I zero'd the scope before heading home.

Now the target shows how well this rifle holds it's POI from any change in bullet speed or powder I have put in it. The best thing is, the last load I had loaded for this test was with the Varget powder I thought I would end up shooting the 180 and 210 grain bullets with. I was sure from shooting the 58 grain mostly with the 200 grain SST while forming the brass, going to 180 grain bullet, again seated to touch the rifling, going up one grain would be safe. I don't know how I got this lucky, but I am pretty sure after several different tests, and a few groups now with over 50 rounds thru the gun, IT AINT A FLUKE! I am past thinking that!

But the 59.0 grain load of Varget with the 180 grain AccuBond, loaded to touch the riflings, while aiming at the center of the square on that bottom right target, is my 180 grain AB bullet load! It also gave me 2966 fps. only 2 shots but with this rifle I no longer believe in flukes! I am at rest till the Scirocco II's arrive next week. I am pretty sure the 210's @ around 2850 to 2900 is going to be where I end up with this rifle.

Time will tell, but I would not limit this gun to big cats,, with proper bullets it is far more capable than that, and a good option for anything on this continent! Needless to say, I am quite happy, and the 338/06 has now got a new FAN BOY! with reason,,,,