Just got invited to Kansas for Whitetails!
- Thread starter 35 Whelen
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35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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Well I dont honestly feel like I am shooting anything that is really fair to fire at a 300lb animal much past 600yds because the bullets have lost soooooo much energy, I dont feel comfortable firing st big game when you get down to 1500ft lbs and less,
I got into abit of a tussle the other day will a guy (on long range)that says he shot an Elk at 1378............. well I am sure you can HIT one at 1378 with enough pratice and equipment, but how well it would kill them was getting pretty IFFY?
I ran some numbers on a 7mm Mag with the 162 Amax at 3000fps with I think .565BC and @1400 yds you could almost catch it with a baseball glove? He quickly informed me that the state of Colorado, only requires the guns for ELK to produce 1000 ft lbs At 100 yards! :shock: Omg, what is that like a 25/20? Anyway he claimed his load was the 180gr Berger, and according to his figures at the same velocity, he came up with nearly 50% more energy???? Really?? :?
Anyway it all sounds good and sells custom rifles and Huskamaw scopes...............
I bet if the viewing public knew how many animals are wounded trying these shots because something always goes wrong,it would shock them, the footage is always spliced after the shot and the animal runs off.....
Also youtube is getting loaded with wanta bees, posting 300yd kill shots labeled , Elk kill 867yds, Moose droped at 939yds,
And all that garbage, then they show the gun and its a Savage 110 in 308, with a 2-7 Bushnell Banner, OOOK... :shock:
Can you hit an Elk at 1000yds , yes you can no question about it, consistently kill an Elk with a 50 cal, yep you could, How about with bullets arriving At 1200/1500fps(what 90% would likely be shooting) maybe........sometimes, with bullets arriving at 1000fps and less??? I think not fair maiden.......jmho
I got into abit of a tussle the other day will a guy (on long range)that says he shot an Elk at 1378............. well I am sure you can HIT one at 1378 with enough pratice and equipment, but how well it would kill them was getting pretty IFFY?
I ran some numbers on a 7mm Mag with the 162 Amax at 3000fps with I think .565BC and @1400 yds you could almost catch it with a baseball glove? He quickly informed me that the state of Colorado, only requires the guns for ELK to produce 1000 ft lbs At 100 yards! :shock: Omg, what is that like a 25/20? Anyway he claimed his load was the 180gr Berger, and according to his figures at the same velocity, he came up with nearly 50% more energy???? Really?? :?
Anyway it all sounds good and sells custom rifles and Huskamaw scopes...............
I bet if the viewing public knew how many animals are wounded trying these shots because something always goes wrong,it would shock them, the footage is always spliced after the shot and the animal runs off.....
Also youtube is getting loaded with wanta bees, posting 300yd kill shots labeled , Elk kill 867yds, Moose droped at 939yds,
And all that garbage, then they show the gun and its a Savage 110 in 308, with a 2-7 Bushnell Banner, OOOK... :shock:
Can you hit an Elk at 1000yds , yes you can no question about it, consistently kill an Elk with a 50 cal, yep you could, How about with bullets arriving At 1200/1500fps(what 90% would likely be shooting) maybe........sometimes, with bullets arriving at 1000fps and less??? I think not fair maiden.......jmho
- Thread starter
- #64
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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I guess my point is Scotty,
I sorta feel that from watching clients shoot many different calibers over the years that a 300 Magnum with out a muzzle brake
Is at the extreame end of what a normal person can stand................. we had a guide who stood 6'5 and weighed 270 that without an ounce of fat, he could rip your limbs from your body in a bar fight, a client had a 300 Wea Mag one time and asked him to shoot it as he could Not hit beans with it! So I watched him shoot the Mark V, he couldnt hit anything either after 3 shots, he told me"I will never fire that again" I asked him why he said so much recoil it will make me start flinching!
Point is if the ordinary fella , could actually hit an animal that weighes 700/1200 lbs at 1400 yds, How effective is a bullet with a jacket designed to be launched at 32/3400 fps, going to perform at 1378 yds after it has been reduced to 38 special velocitys?
Do they make a bullet that expands correctly at that reduced velocity? If so what happens if you fire it at an animal at 250yds?
Anyway just for fun I ran some numbers on a 300 Wea Mag to see how it would really stack up at realistically shooting a bull elk at 1378 yds! Here is what I found out (dont try it!) Using a Nosler Pt 180gr bullet at 3200 fps the program says this, at 500 yds it still hits with a ton of energy! 2000lbs is My personal minimum ,for shooting Elk. Now at 650yds it is down to 1500 ft lbs, that for me is getting iffy unless the shot placement is exact. At 900 yds it has reached the critical speed of 1000fps which may be "legal" in Colorado??? But I consider 1000ft lbs a joke for Moose or Elk!
And at 1378 yds were this fella shoots them "regularly", a 300 Wea Mag is down to 1080fps & 468ft lbs ft lbs of energy! :shock: And how does a Nosler Partition perform at 1000 fps ?? Could you expect it to mushroom correctly?? Realistically this is smelling of disaster to me,assuming you can hit it, somewhere???
So I dont know how big of a caliber, you need to start out with to arrive at 1378 yds with 2000ft lbs ( or even 1500),
Of energy but I am pretty sure I could not shoot it in my T-shirt! :lol:
I sorta feel that from watching clients shoot many different calibers over the years that a 300 Magnum with out a muzzle brake
Is at the extreame end of what a normal person can stand................. we had a guide who stood 6'5 and weighed 270 that without an ounce of fat, he could rip your limbs from your body in a bar fight, a client had a 300 Wea Mag one time and asked him to shoot it as he could Not hit beans with it! So I watched him shoot the Mark V, he couldnt hit anything either after 3 shots, he told me"I will never fire that again" I asked him why he said so much recoil it will make me start flinching!
Point is if the ordinary fella , could actually hit an animal that weighes 700/1200 lbs at 1400 yds, How effective is a bullet with a jacket designed to be launched at 32/3400 fps, going to perform at 1378 yds after it has been reduced to 38 special velocitys?
Do they make a bullet that expands correctly at that reduced velocity? If so what happens if you fire it at an animal at 250yds?
Anyway just for fun I ran some numbers on a 300 Wea Mag to see how it would really stack up at realistically shooting a bull elk at 1378 yds! Here is what I found out (dont try it!) Using a Nosler Pt 180gr bullet at 3200 fps the program says this, at 500 yds it still hits with a ton of energy! 2000lbs is My personal minimum ,for shooting Elk. Now at 650yds it is down to 1500 ft lbs, that for me is getting iffy unless the shot placement is exact. At 900 yds it has reached the critical speed of 1000fps which may be "legal" in Colorado??? But I consider 1000ft lbs a joke for Moose or Elk!
And at 1378 yds were this fella shoots them "regularly", a 300 Wea Mag is down to 1080fps & 468ft lbs ft lbs of energy! :shock: And how does a Nosler Partition perform at 1000 fps ?? Could you expect it to mushroom correctly?? Realistically this is smelling of disaster to me,assuming you can hit it, somewhere???
So I dont know how big of a caliber, you need to start out with to arrive at 1378 yds with 2000ft lbs ( or even 1500),
Of energy but I am pretty sure I could not shoot it in my T-shirt! :lol:
- Thread starter
- #66
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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Probably both my Rem 700 in 25/06 and my Ruger Hawkeye Ultralight in 270........ just in case I have gun troubles or optic problems, I can send the guns with my buddy who is driving out with his truck so I wont have to mess with them at the airports
E
E
- Thread starter
- #68
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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270 has a Zeiss Conquest with the Z600 reticle for hold over, 25 Whelen will have a Leupold CDS dail with dail custom cut for the Speer 120 BT with .488 BC. So I dont think I will be able to blame my optics! Roughly speaking the Rem is MOA @ 100
With mm e behind the wheel, and the little 20"barreled Ultra light is more like just under 1.5".......... gotts do some research and find out what bullet would be the best at 400 yds outta that 270 . I need to buy some anyway!
With mm e behind the wheel, and the little 20"barreled Ultra light is more like just under 1.5".......... gotts do some research and find out what bullet would be the best at 400 yds outta that 270 . I need to buy some anyway!
- Thread starter
- #70
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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- 516
Scotty,
I know I still have two boxes of 130gr PT I have never opened. And I am thinking there could be sone 140 AB there?? Anyway that sounds good!
I know I still have two boxes of 130gr PT I have never opened. And I am thinking there could be sone 140 AB there?? Anyway that sounds good!
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,789
- 6,036
The .25-06 is a deer whackin/stackin cartridge...
As is the .270 - but hey - I've got to back my favorite! :mrgreen:
As is the .270 - but hey - I've got to back my favorite! :mrgreen:
- Thread starter
- #73
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,237
- 516
Guy,
What are your thoughts about "powder" in the 270 knowing it only has a 20" barrel????? I am thinking Scotty is right with this 140gr AB bullet , fantastic BC , proven bullet...............
What are your thoughts about "powder" in the 270 knowing it only has a 20" barrel????? I am thinking Scotty is right with this 140gr AB bullet , fantastic BC , proven bullet...............
The fastest powder out of a 30" barrel is going to be the fastest powder from a 20" barrel. Saying that, H4350, H4831, RL22 and the like will get that 130 or 140 moving as fast as they can get going.
I'll run some numbers for you tonight E, but you probably already have what you need with 760/414 on your shelf.
I'll run some numbers for you tonight E, but you probably already have what you need with 760/414 on your shelf.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,789
- 6,036
35 Whelen":292bueti said:
I agree with Scotty - based on what I've seen when I had 20", 24" and 30" .308 Win barrels all at the same time. Varget produced the best velocity in all three barrels.
.270? Never touch the stuff... :grin:
Guy
- Thread starter
- #76
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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LOL, well god knows I have enough powder in H 414 if I can get em moving............... I guess I was thinking wrong that some of this stuff might not get burned completely out of that short barrel. Anyone care to guess what I should expect with the 414 and a 140AB............. top end?
Darkhorse
Handloader
- Mar 14, 2014
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- 185
- Thread starter
- #78
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
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- 516
Wow! what a beauty. It would be tough to beat that head anywhere. You don't see many that have so much beam length that they are just about touching in the front like that. Massive G3s , that is a head anyone would be proud of, well done.
Sorry to hear about your health problems, it is happening all around me all the time, folks I went to high school with , heart dease, obesity causing high blood preasure, everyone is on Lipitor, its coming to everyone.
Hope you are feeling better real soon , but if your shooting bucks like this one, I can only imagine the other hunters, are glad your out of the woods for a few months, And are hoping to snag one , you would have normally harvested ahead of them!
Sorry to hear about your health problems, it is happening all around me all the time, folks I went to high school with , heart dease, obesity causing high blood preasure, everyone is on Lipitor, its coming to everyone.
Hope you are feeling better real soon , but if your shooting bucks like this one, I can only imagine the other hunters, are glad your out of the woods for a few months, And are hoping to snag one , you would have normally harvested ahead of them!
Darkhorse
Handloader
- Mar 14, 2014
- 822
- 185
For about 15 years I was on the hunting lease of a lifetime. We had 5,000 contignous acres of prime deer land, with a small group of aging hunters. When I got in I was still young and fit. I actually saw one larger antlered buck but he zigged and I zagged while he was chasing a doe at close range, leaving me with a scope full of pines instead of buck.
That year they had cut large clearcuts deep into the property and often far (in eastern terms) from the roads. I had set up a couple of shooting platforms with rails and bags to try and cover a couple of these clearcuts.
I shot a huge 8 point from one on November 10, which exhausted me getting it out. So much so that I decided to forgoe the next day. But being young I recovered quickly and got up and went the morning of the 11th and sat in a stand I had not hunted. About 8 AM I glanced east and saw a buck walking a ridge about 200 yds away. The sun was shining on his antlers and all I could see was 4 points so I just sat there as I wasn't interested in shooting a 4 point. I watched him walk way down that ridge, glassing occasionally, but then he turned west and headed down into the thick creek bottom, and also into the shadow. Suddenly I could count 10 individual points but he didn't seem to carry the width. Then I dropped the glasses and realized how far away he was and how big he really was.
I was all business then. I dropped the glasses and grabbed the Browning while turning the scope to 6 or 7, and set the forend in the bag. I knew it was too far for a trotting buck so I yelled as loud as I could. Fortunately it was one of those still, cold mornings and he heard me, turning slightly quartering to me on another ridge right out in the wide open. I placed the crosshairs midway up the shoulder and squeezed one off, never even thinking about the range.
I saw him stagger in the scope (thanks to the BOSS) then he ran into some thick trees. I was ready for him to come out the other side and into the creek bottom but he never did.
I intended to wait 30 minutes but only managed about 15, got down and started plowing through thickets at the bottom of the ridge then up the other side to the point of the hit and found where he had been standing then trailed him by the scuff marks. He had made less than 100 yards and when I stood over him all I could do was shout "What a buck!" over and over. And do a wardance.
I was able to drive to within 100 yards with my 4wd and had him out in a Jiffy.
Dressed weight was 185 pounds. Gross B&C 164 5/8", Net 161 1/8", He had four tines that measured between 11 3/4 and 12".
We finally lost that lease. I don't think it likely to repeat anytime soon as I don't believe the property I'm now hunting has the genetics to produce a true trophy and there is too much hunting pressure on surrounding property.
But I did see a very nice one this year I couldn't get a shot at, so who knows what the future might bring.
Still, I dream of sitting on one of those Kansas cornfields with that .300 Mag.
That year they had cut large clearcuts deep into the property and often far (in eastern terms) from the roads. I had set up a couple of shooting platforms with rails and bags to try and cover a couple of these clearcuts.
I shot a huge 8 point from one on November 10, which exhausted me getting it out. So much so that I decided to forgoe the next day. But being young I recovered quickly and got up and went the morning of the 11th and sat in a stand I had not hunted. About 8 AM I glanced east and saw a buck walking a ridge about 200 yds away. The sun was shining on his antlers and all I could see was 4 points so I just sat there as I wasn't interested in shooting a 4 point. I watched him walk way down that ridge, glassing occasionally, but then he turned west and headed down into the thick creek bottom, and also into the shadow. Suddenly I could count 10 individual points but he didn't seem to carry the width. Then I dropped the glasses and realized how far away he was and how big he really was.
I was all business then. I dropped the glasses and grabbed the Browning while turning the scope to 6 or 7, and set the forend in the bag. I knew it was too far for a trotting buck so I yelled as loud as I could. Fortunately it was one of those still, cold mornings and he heard me, turning slightly quartering to me on another ridge right out in the wide open. I placed the crosshairs midway up the shoulder and squeezed one off, never even thinking about the range.
I saw him stagger in the scope (thanks to the BOSS) then he ran into some thick trees. I was ready for him to come out the other side and into the creek bottom but he never did.
I intended to wait 30 minutes but only managed about 15, got down and started plowing through thickets at the bottom of the ridge then up the other side to the point of the hit and found where he had been standing then trailed him by the scuff marks. He had made less than 100 yards and when I stood over him all I could do was shout "What a buck!" over and over. And do a wardance.
I was able to drive to within 100 yards with my 4wd and had him out in a Jiffy.
Dressed weight was 185 pounds. Gross B&C 164 5/8", Net 161 1/8", He had four tines that measured between 11 3/4 and 12".
We finally lost that lease. I don't think it likely to repeat anytime soon as I don't believe the property I'm now hunting has the genetics to produce a true trophy and there is too much hunting pressure on surrounding property.
But I did see a very nice one this year I couldn't get a shot at, so who knows what the future might bring.
Still, I dream of sitting on one of those Kansas cornfields with that .300 Mag.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
Excellent account of a great hunt! Thanks for sharing. That deer is superb!
