LAZZERONI RIFLES

[CZ]

Today at the shooting range someone had one of this in .30 Caliber.
Shot it at chrono and with 150gr it gave 3450fps, not too much like
published data.
Someone knows if the Lazzeronis are long throated?????
My ultras seem to approach it without too much hazzle and expense.
Appreciate some comments.

 

[DrMike]

I have done load development for a number of Lazzeronis (7.82 Warbird, 7.82 Patriot and 7.21 Firebird). I refuse to do any load development for Lazzeronis. The pressure generated tends to get the owners into trouble. They attempt to match the published velocities, and there were constant problems. People buy these rifles for speed, and I don't recall a single one that generated the advertised velocities without significant pressure problems and/or throat erosion. Sako chambered the Lazzeroni 7.82 Warbird for a brief while, and I shot a couple of these. Most of the rifles I shot were custom builds. The owners were generally dissatisfied both at the cost of components and at the problems generated with the loads. The Ultra Mag and Weatherby designs appear to be superior for those that feel the need for such velocities. One thing is certain, if an individual intends to shoot one of these hot rods, they need to ensure that they use a tough bullet. I still remember the individual who insisted on shooting a Ballistic Tip from his 7.21 Firebird. He was utterly dissatisfied with the results. I wonder why?

 

[CZ]

I have done load development for a number of Lazzeronis (7.82 Warbird, 7.82 Patriot and 7.21 Firebird). I refuse to do any load development for Lazzeronis. The pressure generated tends to get the owners into trouble. They attempt to match the published velocities, and there were constant problems. People buy these rifles for speed, and I don't recall a single one that generated the advertised velocities without significant pressure problems and/or throat erosion. Sako chambered the Lazzeroni 7.82 Warbird for a brief while, and I shot a couple of these. Most of the rifles I shot were custom builds. The owners were generally dissatisfied both at the cost of components and at the problems generated with the loads. The Ultra Mag and Weatherby designs appear to be superior for those that feel the need for such velocities. One thing is certain, if an individual intends to shoot one of these hot rods, they need to ensure that they use a tough bullet. I still remember the individual who insisted on shooting a Ballistic Tip from his 7.21 Firebird. He was utterly dissatisfied with the results. I wonder why?

Dr. Mike for sure there is nothing granted free, and for sure a lot of trouble for free, like you said
my ultras, or weatherbys for sure accomplish my goals at short and very long range.
My question is about if LAZZERONI use freebore like weatherbys on their rifles???
This guy changed the barrel and for sure the change was not too good 109gr of RL25 for
3450fps from a 28" barrel??????? not too good to my standards.
Lets see what we can help, but I think he would be much better with a Ultra or Weatherby.

 

[DrMike]

His velocities are about what I witnessed on Lazzeroni, Sako and on custom guns. I simply did not see the exaggerated velocities reported without significant pressure signs and throat erosion. The brass (in Canada) ranged from $95 to $125 depending on the exchange rate. For twenty pieces of brass, I was not terribly impressed. Then, to even approximate the velocities desired, the primer pockets were loose after two or three firings. That didn't make me want to own one of these.

 

[longrangehunter]

I've owned a 8.59 Galaxy for about ten years now, built by Mark Bansner. It's a McBros action with a Lilja barrel in one of his High Tech stocks. Yes the brass was or shall I say is expensive, but I've had no problems getting 8-10 reloads from them. I developed a great load using H4350, a 210 gr. XLC bullet and a FGM 215M primer. I achieve an average 3055 fps @ 20' w/this round and have never had any issues with it. Is it my most accurate gun.... No, but it works great and it's lightweight! But then again this was before the WSM craze, which is why I bought it! 8)

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I read lazz uses an undersized coated bullet to get the speed he claims, and still runs them pretty hard to get it. if ya want 3500 fps with a 180 I'd just have a 300 Kong built, kenny jarrette matched the warbird numbers 20 years earlier or there abouts, with common (or more common) components.
RR

 

[SJB358]

I read lazz uses an undersized coated bullet to get the speed he claims, and still runs them pretty hard to get it. if ya want 3500 fps with a 180 I'd just have a 300 Kong built, kenny jarrette matched the warbird numbers 20 years earlier or there abouts, with common (or more common) components.
RR

What is the 300 Kong? I have heard of the 30 Hart, which is an improved 300 WBY but never heard of a Kong? Scotty

 

[HTDUCK]

Here ya go Scotty

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... er=1280186


Howard

 

[SJB358]

Here ya go Scotty

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... er=1280186


Howard

Wow, an IMPROVED 30-378! Now that is something! Talk about regular bullets crying for mercy! What a cartridge. Nothing I would ever need, but I can imagine it must be awesome for the LR hunting crowd. Scotty

 

[longrangehunter]

I read lazz uses an undersized coated bullet to get the speed he claims, and still runs them pretty hard to get it. if ya want 3500 fps with a 180 I'd just have a 300 Kong built, kenny jarrette matched the warbird numbers 20 years earlier or there abouts, with common (or more common) components.
RR

Kenny took an 8mm Rem. Mag. case, neck it down to .308 and changed the shoulder angle to 35 degrees to make his 300 Jarrett. I helped him out one fall many years ago after he fired the two guys helping him do the hand loads for the guns he builds. We became good friends, and all I can say is Kenny is the salt of earth when it comes to being honest. He will never let a gun leave his shop that doesn't shoot under a half minute of angle, his 300 Jarrett loads are tuned to 3/8". He achieves 3350-3450 FPS w/ a 165 gr. bullet using more then a just few powders. I've owed one ever since then and his barrels and loads work magic! :mrgreen:

 

[HTDUCK]

Here ya go Scotty

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... er=1280186


Howard

Wow, an IMPROVED 30-378! Now that is something! Talk about regular bullets crying for mercy! What a cartridge. Nothing I would ever need, but I can imagine it must be awesome for the LR hunting crowd. Scotty

Ya know Scotty, I'm surprised Fotis doesn't have one for a prarie dog rifle! :mrgreen:

 

[Elkman]

this whole topic makes me quiver. !!!! Lots of potential for something to go very wrong in some of these examples. Exciting stuff.

 

[SJB358]

Here ya go Scotty

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... er=1280186


Howard

Wow, an IMPROVED 30-378! Now that is something! Talk about regular bullets crying for mercy! What a cartridge. Nothing I would ever need, but I can imagine it must be awesome for the LR hunting crowd. Scotty

Ya know Scotty, I'm surprised Fotis doesn't have one for a prarie dog rifle! :mrgreen:

I am kinda surprised by that as well. I figured his 375 Snipe Tac was going to be his new antelope rifle! Scotty

 

[IdahoCTD]

I build a .30-.378 IMP. probably 15 years ago. I had 150 ballistic tips over 4000fps, 165's were about 3850, and 180's were 3650-3700fps. I was using WC872 ball powder in it and I think it carbon fouled the barrel. I still have it but haven't shot it in forever.

I also have had numerous .30-8mm Mag's and .30-.358STA's (.300 Jarrett's). I have a .30-8mm Mag now , with a Bartlein Sendero contour barrel, that I just shot a .96" 3 shot group with at 550yds with 210gr Matrix VLD's at 3100fps.

 

[DrMike]

That's a pretty tight group you shot. Sounds as if you've played with a few 30 calibre trials.

 

[Elkman]

idaho

That is a fantastic group, as well as great equipment it takes a very good shooter. Congratulations on both !!!

 

[IdahoCTD]

Mike,

I have built a few .30 cal magnums :grin: . They use to be our go to rockchuck guns. With 150gr ballistic tips or 185/190 Bergers they do some pretty spectacular things to chucks. Now days I usually shoot my 6mm's or 6BR they just don't have the pop at long range the .30's do.

We quit doing the .30-.358STA's in favor of the .30-8mm so we didn't have to fire form brass anymore. There is only about 3 grains of capacity difference in the 2 and very little velocity difference (50fps or less). The .308 Baer and .30-.358STA/.300 Jarrett are almost identical. The .30-.358STA has a .500 shoulder diameter instead of .495 for the Baer and both have 35 degree shoulders.

Currently I have 2 .30-.338's, 2 .30-8mm's, a .308 Baer, a .300 RUM, and a .30-.378 IMP. (at least I think that's all :lol: ). I tend to build guns, shoot them a few years, get bored, then stick them in the safe, and build something new instead of selling them. When they shoot as well as the last .30-8mm it's mostly down hill from there. It shot several .3" groups at 100yds with Bergers and Matrix bullets, .8" at 250yds with the Matrix and 1.1" with the Bergers in poor light conditions, and then the .96" group at 550yds. I could probably improve the 250yd groups and maybe get a little better at 100yds but shooting a lot better then that at 550yds isn't likely. It only has a 4.5x14x40 Leupold on it so shooting small groups at much past 5-600yds get's a bit hard. I'll probably try to shoot it at 750yds (the furthest I can shoot it where I normally shoot) just to see what it will do and check the clicks in my scope against Matrix's published .752 bc. I already know how the Matrix bullets do on elk as a friend just shot a 6x6 bull with them out of his .300 Win. Sendero this past weekend at 612yds. I have to wait until December to shoot the cow I drew a tag for unless I run into a deer big enough to shoot this month.

 

[DrMike]

I reckon they'd indeed do a number on rock chucks. It does seem that there is a point in case capacity where you are simply not gaining any further significant velocity--all you're doing is burning more powder. Still, it is fun to find that point. Good report.

 

[IdahoCTD]

You are spot on. The .30-8mm will shoot 150's in the 3500 to 3600fps range with powder charges in the mid 80's. My .30-.378 IMP takes 128 or 129gr to get 400 to 500fps more with 2 1/2" of extra barrel length. Granted that is ball powder versus stick but it's definately the land of diminishing returns. A .300 RUM takes upwards of 100+grs to push a 150gr bullet 100 to 150fps faster (more times then not it's closer to 100fps) then a .30-8mm. The 7 STW and 7 RUM are even closer. The bang for the buck just isn't there for a lot of the Ultra Mag and bigger cases especially in the smaller bores.

 

[SJB358]

IdahoCTD, if you ever get a chance, could you post up some pictures of your cartridges and a few rifles? I (WE) would love to see them. They sound like some incredible rifles. Very interesting to me, as I haven't owned a larger 30 cal than the 300WBY and am going backward a bit with a 300WSM as the next 30 cal magnum. Those big 300's are pretty slick. Looking over the books, it seems like they would be something with 200-240gr bullets.

Also, if you could get some field reports on the Matrix bullets, that would be excellent as well. They sound like an AB-Berger blend and that has to be a good thing for the longer range shooters. Scotty