Load Data 7 mag - 168 LR?
- Thread starter sendero72
- Start date
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
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I think that this bullet will need to be tested in the rifle to be used. The 7mm Rem Mag has a reputation for being all over the velocity map with normal bullets, let alone any bullets with hard to measure bearing surface in variable rifling. I have some Federal factory loads with this bullets which I bought to shoot and measure velocity and accuracy in my custom rifle. I have not had decent weather to shoot these 7mm Mag 168 ABLR bullets yet. My chrono is waiting for some better weather.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,462
- 3,563
Use 175 data and work up. Too early for data specific to this projectile.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,552
- 6,650
Ingwe":f6o796nb said:
Because the hand loader bears responsibility for his/her own effort. While someone might attempt a suit, it is doubtful that they would prevail due to the nature of hand loading.
DrMike":zhd8211f said:
DrMike, Of course I agree with you regarding personal responsibility, but do you remember the idiot who spilled hot coffee on himself and won a few million dollars from McDonalds?? This BS goes on all the time, and although I do believe that us hunters, shooters, reloaders, etc are a cut above the rest, I do not think that it is below SOMEONE who blows himself up while reloading to sue Nosler for not publishing load data for that product.
You can bring a lawsuit against anyone for anything......whether you win or not is another matter, but right or wrong, it would drag Noslers great name through the mud and cost them a ton of Liar/Lawyer fee's win or lose.
Just my 2 Cents of course!
The only thing I have against Nosler is that I can't find any 168gr ACLR's
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,552
- 6,650
Of course, you are correct. I'm only saying that unless they could demonstrate that Nosler produced a defective product, and especially that they produced and marketed said defective product knowingly, they have no case. I understand that an expenditure for legal representation is already made simply to get the case before a judge, and I also understand that a judge wearing his/her bias on his/her sleeve could make Nosler crawl through the slime. However, I would argue that in law, the case would be thrown out. McDonald's settled rather than run the risk of losing. I do agree on this, it is an insane world, and lawyers have contributed greatly to the insanity! It is mostly lawyers who make our laws, which accounts for most of the madness. :mrgreen:
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
I have purchased a couple of boxes of this 7mm Rem Mag ammo (Federal) with the ABLR 168 gr bullet in it and will range test it in the next couple of weeks, including chrono testing. I will write up the testing data after I am able to range test this ammo.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
No problem, Dan, I am glad to do the initial testing. I am having an immune system infusion today which takes most of the day, and I feel rotten afterward for a day or two, so it will not be until Monday maybe?
sendero72":2mu40o2k said:
What sorta powders were you looking at using. Fotis was spot on, I would use that data and work up. I have found the ABLR's to make less PSI's in my rifle than conventional PT's and BT's due to their shorting bearing surface. I used data for the 168 Sierra and worked up with my choice of powder (RL25).
I have found the ABLR's do like some jump into the rifling, so starting them about .050" off doesn't seem to be crazy. Again, this is for the my factory rifles I have ran the bullet in.
Oldtrader3....I bought some of perhaps the same ammo from shooters proshop. I spot checked a couple rounds for run out and got somewhat of a surprise finding 1/2 the box being between .010-.015 run out.
I bought 4 boxes for my buddy. I only checked the one box. He has a custom rifle and does his testing@ 330 yds on his home range. Kinda wondering how these will shoot....I marked all good and bad run out.
If they shoot groups based on run out the next step is to take the extra boxes and straighten em on the hornady corrector tool.
I don't know when my buddy will shoot...but you may want to take a look at your ammo.
Edit...oops I see yours are federal ammo!
I bought 4 boxes for my buddy. I only checked the one box. He has a custom rifle and does his testing@ 330 yds on his home range. Kinda wondering how these will shoot....I marked all good and bad run out.
If they shoot groups based on run out the next step is to take the extra boxes and straighten em on the hornady corrector tool.
I don't know when my buddy will shoot...but you may want to take a look at your ammo.
Edit...oops I see yours are federal ammo!
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
Thanks guys, mine are Nosler and I will check the TIR and length to seating tangent point. Nosler is good ammo and I will report my findings.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
Shown is a group shot this afternoon with the 168 gr, BTLR, 7mm Rem Mag, Nosler factory loads. Other measurements of run out (TIR) will be forthcoming tomorrow. The two shots at the top of the target pattern are sighter and check of group start point to better center scope sight in target for grouping check. Group measures slightly over 7/8 on two longest axis and slightly less of 5/8 inches on other axis.
Accuracy was pretty close to hand loaded group, running about 1/8 inch larger group average size than handloads with 160 Partition, chron'ed at 2900 fps today for a control muzzle velocity. Nosler ammo box listed 2880 fps for ammo fps. Actual chron'ed fps was 2788 (@10 feet chrono), at sea level and 65*F, making this BTLR, 168 gr factory ammo about 90-100 fps slower than advertised velocity listed on box with slightly larger group size then control.
These deviations in the 7mm Rem Mag are typical of chamber size variations in various rifles. Most 7 mm Rem Mag rifles tend to shoot slower than factory FPS muzzle velocity. Plus, this rifle is over 40 years old and has some throat erosion starting foreword of the chamber.
Accuracy was pretty close to hand loaded group, running about 1/8 inch larger group average size than handloads with 160 Partition, chron'ed at 2900 fps today for a control muzzle velocity. Nosler ammo box listed 2880 fps for ammo fps. Actual chron'ed fps was 2788 (@10 feet chrono), at sea level and 65*F, making this BTLR, 168 gr factory ammo about 90-100 fps slower than advertised velocity listed on box with slightly larger group size then control.
These deviations in the 7mm Rem Mag are typical of chamber size variations in various rifles. Most 7 mm Rem Mag rifles tend to shoot slower than factory FPS muzzle velocity. Plus, this rifle is over 40 years old and has some throat erosion starting foreword of the chamber.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
I checked TIR (runout) of the bullet at half way between tip and cannula on the ABLR bullets and also versus hand loads. On the (5) bullets that I checked of the Nosler factory 168 ABLR, runout was .004/.007 TIR. This versus 001/.003 TIR on handloads. This may explain larger group size of the ABLR ammo?
With out being able to shoot at long range, I am guessing that the lower muzzle velocity and higher BC of the Nosler factory loads and larger group size of the ABLR 168 grain factory loads negates much advantage over the more accurate and faster 160 gr AB hand loaded bullet.
I will have to visit this again when I can get some ABLR bullets to handload. Meanwhile I need to check muzzle velocities between 160 Partitions and 160 AB's. Something is missing here?
With out being able to shoot at long range, I am guessing that the lower muzzle velocity and higher BC of the Nosler factory loads and larger group size of the ABLR 168 grain factory loads negates much advantage over the more accurate and faster 160 gr AB hand loaded bullet.
I will have to visit this again when I can get some ABLR bullets to handload. Meanwhile I need to check muzzle velocities between 160 Partitions and 160 AB's. Something is missing here?
Well for sure 2788 isn't where you'll want to be w/a 7 mag!
I pulled one of the bullets to try to identify the brand of brass hoping it would be Norma...but it wasn't.
The powder used was a short stick powder....I don't have the box here anymore where I wrote down the charge.
The other surprise I got was case mouths were not chamfered inside...I'm hoping they used a step mandrel to flare the case mouth before seating and somehow closed it down afterwards but there was no crimp.
The ammo I bought was sold as blems and was probably priced less than I could have bought the components for....but I think my loads would have been better if i could have put em together.
I'll bet if you sort your remaining ammo by run out those groups could easily tighten up.
I pulled one of the bullets to try to identify the brand of brass hoping it would be Norma...but it wasn't.
The powder used was a short stick powder....I don't have the box here anymore where I wrote down the charge.
The other surprise I got was case mouths were not chamfered inside...I'm hoping they used a step mandrel to flare the case mouth before seating and somehow closed it down afterwards but there was no crimp.
The ammo I bought was sold as blems and was probably priced less than I could have bought the components for....but I think my loads would have been better if i could have put em together.
I'll bet if you sort your remaining ammo by run out those groups could easily tighten up.
