Look at what 700 ft/lbs dif. of energy can do to steel

[Desert Fox]

I"ve been contemplating on using 168 grain Nosler Competition bullet on deer this year. I figured, with it's thinner jacket and superb accuracy, this bullet will be good for longrange work. Looking at realistic numbers, this bullet can be use on deersize game at a maximum distance of 600 yards or even 700, if the shooter is up to it.
The other day, I went to our club shooting range late afternoon for my weekly longrange session to see how this bullet will behave at longdistance. I brought my 8"X18"-3/4" thick steelplate target for such an occasion. I'm planning to shoot at our 600 yard range at first but, two fellow member were using our Cowboy range, which is downrange from the 600 yard so I decided to wait. In the meantime, I will used the 250 yards range which was open, to warmed-up. Hanged the target using just a piece of wire, I then proceeded to check my zero using two loads; one a 155 grain Scenar at 2900 fps and the other, a 168 Nosler at 2650. The wind varies between 0, 10 and 15 knots respectively and kept changing direction from 12 to 2 oclock. I timed the wind to 0, which was a bit tricky, and fired three Scenar succesively at the center of the target. I went to checked the group and while I'm there, sprayed black dot on the target for reference. I then went back to the bench and fired 5-168 grain Nosler sucessively, always timing the wind at zero for every shot. Here's the result. The top 3 craters was by the Scenars and the bottom five by the Noslers.

Finally, the other two fellow member left and I have the range all to my self. The light was fading fast so I hurried and went to the 600 yards range and set up the rifle using my front pedestal and beanbag. Wind died down a bit and the direction remain steady at 1 oclock. I loaded 3 168 on the magazine, cranked the Nikon 15.5 MOA, settled the crosshair at the crater made by the Scenar as reference and sent the Nosler on it's way. I know it was a solid hit because the metal target moved and the target skewed slightly to the right. Looking through the spotting scope, I could see that the bullet hit the left side of the target so, I dialed 2 clicks right on the windage and fired the second one and then third sucessively, without even checking where the bullet landed because at this time there"s hardly any light left. Here's the result of the three shot group. the last two were within 2 inches with each other. The last hit was in between the two crater made by the Scenar.

Check the damaged on the steel target. That's only a difference of 700 ft/lbs of bullet energy.

 

[longwinters]

Thats some nice shootin D.F

I would be curious what some Accubonds would do in like situation.

Long

 

[Desert Fox]

Hi' Long,

Don't know but probably much better result than the Comp bullet. My Exbal program showed impact energy of 1818 ft/lbs at 250 yards and 1037 ft/lbs at 600; a difference of 781 ft/lbs. At 600 yards, the bullet just chipped the paint off the target. Contrast that at 250.
A friend found a good load for my 308 using the 168 Nosler Comp. and H4895 powder. His load will push the 168 at over 2700 fps which was even better than my load which uses BLC-2. The BLC, although accurate in my rifle, is very temperature sensitive. The only reason I'm still using this powder is that, I have a ton of them left in my inventory.

AccuBond on 308 velocity is probably overkill. IMO, your better served with ballistic tip. People underestimate the penetrating ability of ballistic tips. I once shoot at a truck chassis at 70 yards with my 280 using 150 grain BT at 2875, just to see if the bullet will penetrate them. It did, and the bullet went through like a hot knife on a butter. As a matter of fact it made perfect hole as if, somebody drilled them.

 

[longwinters]

You are talking about 2 of my favorites, the 308 and the 280. The farthest I can shoot them is 300yds at a range.

Keep us posted on your "experiments"

Long

 

[Bigwheels]

I put a 200gr. Balistic Tip through a piece of 3/8" plate stainless steel @ 200yds. with my .338 WM. I was pretty supprised. I could put my small finger through the hole it left.

 

[fredj338]

No disrespect, but , shooting steel has little to do with shooting game animals. You can drive a 55gr 223 through 3/8" steel plate @ 50yds, but I doubt it gets through a deer shoulder @ the same range. The bullet behaves completely diff. on flesh & bone than it does on steel. I would not use a match bullet for hunting, they are just too unpredictable. Some will expand nicely, some will explode & others will pencil through. Hunt w/ what you like but thats JMO based on tests & testimonials from those that have.

 

[old #7]

fredj338 wrote:

No disrespect, but , shooting steel has little to do with shooting game animals. You can drive a 55gr 223 through 3/8" steel plate @ 50yds, but I doubt it gets through a deer shoulder @ the same range. The bullet behaves completely diff. on flesh & bone than it does on steel. I would not use a match bullet for hunting, they are just too unpredictable. Some will expand nicely, some will explode & others will pencil through. Hunt w/ what you like but thats JMO based on tests & testimonials from those that have.

My bushmaster in 223 with a 16"bbl makes swiss cheese out of 1/4" steel at 100yds. The target I was shooting at was a spinner and the target barely moved when hit. I thought I was nicking the edge of the target because it only moved about a 1/2".
I am in construction and use powder actuated tools frequently. My nail gun will drive a .148 diameter nail through 1/4" steel all day. the power behind the nail gun is only a 27 cal blank the lenght of a 22 short.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

55g NBT's out of a 243 at 4000fps will leave holes in 3/8" steel at 200 yards as well.

Your experiment was/is quite interesting.

Velocity has much more to do with penetrating steel then anything else if I remember correctly...

I would shoot some of those 168g nosler comp bullets into some wet newspaper or something of the like to get an idea of expansion before I used them on deer. If expansion is good, then 600-700 yards is no problem on deer with a 308, providing good shot placement.

 

[Desert Fox]

Fred, chill-out buddy, I said, I'm still contemplating. It doesn't mean I'm going to :roll:. I'm shooting at a steel target not to probe bullet terminal performance but to check the accuracy of my handloads at long range. I'm just showing the result of bullet impact on steel at two different distances. For your info, a lot of people harvest a lot of games every year using match bullet. Manufacturers don't recommend their use but it doesn't mean you can't use them. If you read my original post, I mentioned longrange work. That's because I understand the limitation of this bullet on short ranges. With impact velocity of around 1500 fps, I believed this bullet will hold together and penetrate deep just like any other swaged bullet.

 

[tjen]

This was in 70's when you could get cheap surplus ammo and the armor pearcing was avalible. A friend shoot up old appliences like fridges and washing machine etc for fun. He had a piece of 3/8 inch cold rolled steel and most of the 30-06 armor percing would go thur it. He shot some of the 22 cal sabot accelerators at it and all penitrated the 3/8 steel I would have never believed it! Some times stuff would come back at ya from the AP it was most likly the copper jackets the range was 100 yards.
YAH we were young and dum.

 

[Powerstroke]

Stay away from the shoulder bone, and I wouldn't hesitate about using the Match bullets. IMO match grade bullets are much more predictable, complete and udder explosion. SMK have treated me well with Mulies.

 

[SakoSteve270wsm]

Remingtonman_25_06 wrote:

Velocity has much more to do with penetrating steel then anything else if I remember correctly...

This is true.Just ask our tank crews that had to face the high velocity guns of german panther/tiger tanks in wwII.