Looking for: CFE 223 load data for 6mm Rem (244 Rem)
- Thread starter brians356
- Start date
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,312
- 5,978
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 100, Nosler PART SP 35642
Useable Case Capaci: 49.549 grain H2O = 3.217 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 66 33.60 2506 1394 33122 10067 96.5 1.405
-18.0 68 34.44 2562 1458 35208 10327 97.3 1.372
-16.0 69 35.28 2619 1523 37405 10573 98.0 1.338
-14.0 71 36.12 2675 1589 39725 10805 98.6 1.300
-12.0 73 36.96 2730 1655 42173 11020 99.1 1.263
-10.0 74 37.80 2785 1723 44758 11218 99.4 1.228
-08.0 76 38.64 2840 1791 47485 11400 99.7 1.194
-06.0 78 39.48 2894 1860 50363 11562 99.9 1.162
-04.0 79 40.32 2948 1929 53401 11706 100.0 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 81 41.16 3001 1999 56607 11834 100.0 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 83 42.00 3053 2070 59993 11958 100.0 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 84 42.84 3105 2140 63569 12080 100.0 1.044 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 86 43.68 3156 2212 67346 12200 100.0 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 87 44.52 3207 2283 71339 12316 100.0 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 89 45.36 3257 2355 75562 12430 100.0 0.966 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 91 46.20 3307 2428 80030 12540 100.0 0.942 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 83 42.00 3152 2207 70426 11589 100.0 1.000 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 83 42.00 2904 1873 49540 12225 98.5 1.167
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 100, Nosler PART SP 35642
Useable Case Capaci: 49.549 grain H2O = 3.217 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
18 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 103.9 49.5 3.21 3198 99.1 61500 14422 1.050 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 105.6 49.3 3.19 3183 96.3 61500 14556 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 105.8 51.4 3.33 3168 94.8 61500 14548 1.053 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 104.1 48.8 3.16 3168 96.7 61500 14114 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 110.0 48.8 3.16 3168 96.7 61497 14114 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 105.8 48.9 3.17 3163 98.1 61500 14101 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 108.7 49.1 3.18 3161 97.9 61500 14105 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 93.2 44.7 2.89 3152 100.0 61500 12851 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 105.4 52.4 3.40 3141 98.6 61500 13513 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 110.0 50.0 3.24 3138 99.8 57626 13888 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 102.4 46.8 3.03 3118 97.9 61500 13414 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 97.9 46.2 2.99 3118 99.5 61500 13130 1.055 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 92.5 44.7 2.89 3116 99.1 61500 13159 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 92.5 44.7 2.89 3116 99.1 61500 13159 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 97.5 44.0 2.85 3102 100.0 61500 12648 1.061 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 94.7 44.2 2.86 3100 100.0 61500 12778 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 96.7 44.2 2.86 3097 100.0 61500 12643 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 97.1 45.8 2.97 3094 97.7 61500 13061 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 107.7 47.8 3.10 3089 95.9 61500 13116 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 103.5 47.8 3.10 3089 95.9 61500 13116 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 102.3 44.7 2.90 3083 100.0 61500 12386 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 105.9 48.4 3.13 3071 99.5 61500 12614 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 100.9 48.6 3.15 3068 97.7 61500 12718 1.053 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 107.9 48.8 3.16 3065 98.3 61500 12559 1.058 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 100.1 44.2 2.87 3064 100.0 61500 11681 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 90.0 42.0 2.72 3059 99.9 61500 12204 1.068 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 99.8 44.6 2.89 3058 98.6 61500 12418 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 97.9 44.5 2.88 3058 98.7 61500 12398 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 90.3 41.7 2.70 3050 100.0 61500 11753 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 107.8 47.2 3.06 3044 96.6 61500 12455 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 110.0 50.2 3.26 3040 95.4 52540 14121 1.130
IMR 4007 SSC 91.9 42.6 2.76 3039 98.7 61500 12242 1.062 ! Near Maximum !What bullet do you have in mind?
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,312
- 5,978
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 95, Nosler BalTip 24095
Useable Case Capaci: 49.056 grain H2O = 3.185 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 67 34.00 2568 1391 33236 10026 95.9 1.371
-18.0 69 34.85 2626 1455 35390 10292 96.7 1.338
-16.0 71 35.70 2685 1521 37648 10544 97.5 1.305
-14.0 73 36.55 2743 1588 40028 10781 98.2 1.267
-12.0 74 37.40 2801 1656 42545 11002 98.7 1.231
-10.0 76 38.25 2859 1724 45206 11206 99.2 1.196
-08.0 78 39.10 2916 1794 48020 11393 99.5 1.162
-06.0 79 39.95 2973 1864 50996 11561 99.8 1.130
-04.0 81 40.80 3029 1935 54142 11710 100.0 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 83 41.65 3084 2006 57471 11838 100.0 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 84 42.50 3139 2078 60992 11956 100.0 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 86 43.35 3193 2150 64720 12071 100.0 1.014 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 88 44.20 3246 2223 68666 12183 100.0 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 89 45.05 3299 2296 72849 12293 100.0 0.961 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 91 45.90 3352 2370 77281 12399 100.0 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 93 46.75 3404 2445 81983 12501 100.0 0.913 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 84 42.50 3244 2220 71790 11573 100.0 0.971 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 84 42.50 2981 1875 50215 12178 98.1 1.134
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 90, Nosler E-Tip 59165
Useable Case Capaci: 48.295 grain H2O = 3.136 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 69 34.00 2610 1361 32550 9832 94.7 1.350
-18.0 70 34.85 2670 1425 34698 10105 95.7 1.317
-16.0 72 35.70 2731 1491 36978 10364 96.6 1.284
-14.0 74 36.55 2792 1557 39373 10610 97.4 1.247
-12.0 75 37.40 2852 1625 41890 10841 98.1 1.211
-10.0 77 38.25 2912 1694 44552 11055 98.6 1.176
-08.0 79 39.10 2971 1764 47373 11253 99.1 1.143
-06.0 81 39.95 3030 1835 50360 11432 99.5 1.111
-04.0 82 40.80 3088 1906 53525 11592 99.8 1.080 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 84 41.65 3146 1978 56878 11733 99.9 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 86 42.50 3203 2051 60433 11854 100.0 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 87 43.35 3260 2124 64203 11961 100.0 0.995 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 89 44.20 3316 2197 68203 12065 100.0 0.968 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 91 45.05 3371 2271 72449 12165 100.0 0.943 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 93 45.90 3426 2346 76959 12263 100.0 0.918 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 94 46.75 3481 2421 81753 12357 100.0 0.894 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 86 42.50 3318 2199 71382 11452 100.0 0.952 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 86 42.50 3034 1840 49529 11969 97.4 1.115
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 90, Nosler Accubond 56357
Useable Case Capaci: 49.572 grain H2O = 3.219 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 68 34.80 2633 1386 33261 10120 95.2 1.339
-18.0 70 35.67 2694 1451 35458 10395 96.2 1.307
-16.0 72 36.54 2755 1517 37765 10657 97.0 1.272
-14.0 73 37.41 2816 1585 40188 10903 97.7 1.235
-12.0 75 38.28 2876 1653 42750 11133 98.4 1.200
-10.0 77 39.15 2936 1723 45463 11346 98.9 1.165
-08.0 79 40.02 2995 1793 48335 11542 99.3 1.132
-06.0 80 40.89 3054 1864 51376 11718 99.7 1.101
-04.0 82 41.76 3113 1936 54596 11874 99.9 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 84 42.63 3171 2009 58007 12010 100.0 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 85 43.50 3228 2082 61621 12127 100.0 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 87 44.37 3284 2155 65451 12238 100.0 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 89 45.24 3340 2229 69513 12346 100.0 0.960 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 91 46.11 3395 2304 73823 12451 100.0 0.934 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 92 46.98 3450 2379 78399 12553 100.0 0.910 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 94 47.85 3505 2455 83261 12651 100.0 0.886 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 85 43.50 3340 2229 72642 11729 100.0 0.944 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 85 43.50 3061 1873 50638 12298 97.8 1.105
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 85, Nosler PART SP 16314
Useable Case Capaci: 50.897 grain H2O = 3.305 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 68 35.60 2678 1354 32427 10205 94.2 1.320
-18.0 70 36.49 2741 1418 34573 10494 95.2 1.288
-16.0 72 37.38 2804 1484 36842 10771 96.2 1.258
-14.0 73 38.27 2866 1550 39224 11033 97.0 1.220
-12.0 75 39.16 2928 1618 41729 11279 97.7 1.185
-10.0 77 40.05 2990 1687 44381 11509 98.4 1.151
-08.0 78 40.94 3051 1757 47190 11722 98.9 1.118
-06.0 80 41.83 3112 1828 50164 11915 99.3 1.087
-04.0 82 42.72 3173 1900 53314 12089 99.7 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 83 43.61 3233 1972 56650 12243 99.9 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 85 44.50 3292 2045 60185 12375 100.0 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 87 45.39 3350 2119 63933 12488 100.0 0.973 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 89 46.28 3408 2193 67906 12595 100.0 0.947 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 90 47.17 3466 2267 72123 12699 100.0 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 92 48.06 3522 2342 76599 12799 100.0 0.898 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 94 48.95 3579 2417 81354 12896 100.0 0.874 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 85 44.50 3413 2198 71028 11964 100.0 0.930 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 85 44.50 3115 1831 49388 12435 97.1 1.092
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 80, Nosler BalTip 24080
Useable Case Capaci: 50.518 grain H2O = 3.280 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 69 36.00 2741 1335 32181 10085 93.1 1.289
-18.0 71 36.90 2806 1399 34331 10381 94.3 1.258
-16.0 73 37.80 2871 1465 36622 10664 95.3 1.228
-14.0 75 38.70 2937 1532 39061 10933 96.2 1.192
-12.0 76 39.60 3001 1600 41629 11187 97.1 1.157
-10.0 78 40.50 3066 1670 44331 11425 97.8 1.123
-08.0 80 41.40 3130 1740 47193 11645 98.4 1.091
-06.0 82 42.30 3194 1812 50231 11847 99.0 1.060
-04.0 83 43.20 3257 1884 53455 12030 99.4 1.030 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 85 44.10 3320 1958 56876 12191 99.7 1.001 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 87 45.00 3382 2032 60510 12332 99.9 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 88 45.90 3444 2106 64369 12451 100.0 0.947 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 90 46.80 3505 2182 68471 12550 100.0 0.921 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 92 47.70 3565 2257 72834 12645 100.0 0.896 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 94 48.60 3624 2333 77476 12736 100.0 0.872 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 95 49.50 3683 2410 82421 12824 100.0 0.849 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 87 45.00 3512 2191 71623 11918 100.0 0.905 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 87 45.00 3194 1812 49449 12305 96.4 1.064- Thread starter
- #4
DrMike,
Wow, thanks, I didn't expect anything like reams of data.
Interestingly, I have been poring over 243 Win and 243 WSSM data (both CFE 223 and powders close to CFE in the burn rate charts like Varget and H380) and had extrapolated a 33-grain starting charge behind a 107-grain bullet. Your data suggest 33.6 grains starting charge for a 100-gr bullet, which jibes with the charge decreasing slightly for the incrementally heavier bullet.
Question: Are these data from an interior ballistics modeling program, or is it at least in part based on actual testing?
The reason I ask is probably obvious, but in fact I called Hodgdon's tech line, and was informed that they found CFE 223 to be "too erratic" in 6mm Rem for publication or further testing. Which doesn't ring true when they have published data for both 243 Win and 243 WSSM, and those are well within 5% of the case capacity of 6mm Rem.
I should note also that Hodgdon does not publish CFE 223 data for any bullet heavier than 75 grains in those two .243 caliber cartridges, so that does suggest CFE 223 is erratic behind heavy bullets.
Brian
Wow, thanks, I didn't expect anything like reams of data.
Interestingly, I have been poring over 243 Win and 243 WSSM data (both CFE 223 and powders close to CFE in the burn rate charts like Varget and H380) and had extrapolated a 33-grain starting charge behind a 107-grain bullet. Your data suggest 33.6 grains starting charge for a 100-gr bullet, which jibes with the charge decreasing slightly for the incrementally heavier bullet.
Question: Are these data from an interior ballistics modeling program, or is it at least in part based on actual testing?
The reason I ask is probably obvious, but in fact I called Hodgdon's tech line, and was informed that they found CFE 223 to be "too erratic" in 6mm Rem for publication or further testing. Which doesn't ring true when they have published data for both 243 Win and 243 WSSM, and those are well within 5% of the case capacity of 6mm Rem.
I should note also that Hodgdon does not publish CFE 223 data for any bullet heavier than 75 grains in those two .243 caliber cartridges, so that does suggest CFE 223 is erratic behind heavy bullets.
Brian
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,312
- 5,978
brians356":t3t4lli8 said:
The data are projected from formulae built upon either measured parameters or suppositions. Hence, all case volumes are SAAMI standards. Burn rates are means. If you know the burn rate of a powder, you can adjust the program to compensate. Since few of us have bomb calorimeters or sophisticated measuring devices, we caution that burn rates may vary up to ten percent and watch for signs of excessive pressure, etc. Herr Broemel does conduct tests in his own laboratory when generating data for new powders/bullets/etc.
I would certainly respect the word of the ballisticians at Hodgdons when they caution against using a particular powder given particular conditions. They know whereof they speak. Any time we move into territory in which data is untested, we are on our own. Thus, the old adage applies--start low and work up carefully. Watch for pressure signs. Be cautious in working up a load. As with all situations, just because a powder/bullet/case combination appears reasonable is no proof that it is stable or acceptable.
- Thread starter
- #6
DrMike":5b9c54c7 said:
I should expand on my goal here:
I am preparing to use the Tubb "Final Finish" fire lap kit on an old (1970s) Rem 700 Varmint in 6mm Rem. The bullets are 107-gr Sierra HPBT. I have a couple pounds of CFE 223, and since rapid copper fouling is the reason I intend to run the lapping bullets through it, I figured CFE would be a good powder for the process, as part of the process is frequent cleaning to remove copper fouling. Starting with a clean bore, CFE has been documented to prevent copper fouling.
(Please, please chaps, let's not turn this thread into a discussion of the relative merits of fire lapping!)
Tubb recommends using a starting load for one of the faster powders deemed appropriate for the 107-gr bullet.
Hodgdon publish Varget and IMR 4064 (the former close to CFE 223, and 4064 significantly faster.)
Sierra publish IMR 4095, IMR 4064, and IMR 4320 (all significantly faster than CFE 223) behind the 107-gr bullet.
Since I do not intend to ever charge higher than a starting load, I am not too worried about erratic pressures, which would be a concern if I was working up a load approaching max pressure. So my goal was to identify a reasonable starting load for CFE 223, period.
Brian
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,312
- 5,978
Code:
Cartridge : .244 Rem.
Bullet : .243, 107, Sierra HPBT MatchK 1570
Useable Case Capaci: 47.818 grain H2O = 3.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 66 32.40 2437 1411 33590 9791 97.3 1.438
-18.0 68 33.21 2491 1475 35689 10032 98.0 1.407
-16.0 69 34.02 2545 1539 37905 10259 98.6 1.372
-14.0 71 34.83 2599 1605 40243 10471 99.1 1.332
-12.0 73 35.64 2652 1671 42710 10667 99.4 1.295
-10.0 74 36.45 2705 1738 45313 10847 99.7 1.259
-08.0 76 37.26 2757 1806 48058 11010 99.9 1.224
-06.0 78 38.07 2809 1874 50954 11154 100.0 1.191
-04.0 79 38.88 2860 1943 54009 11283 100.0 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 81 39.69 2910 2012 57232 11410 100.0 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 82 40.50 2960 2081 60634 11534 100.0 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 84 41.31 3009 2151 64226 11655 100.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 86 42.12 3058 2222 68019 11774 100.0 1.044 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 87 42.93 3107 2293 72027 11889 100.0 1.018 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 89 43.74 3155 2364 76264 12002 100.0 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 91 44.55 3203 2437 80745 12113 100.0 0.969 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 82 40.50 3051 2212 71110 11184 100.0 1.028 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 82 40.50 2822 1892 50118 11864 99.0 1.196Bear in mind that burn rates vary with case capacity, bullet weight and even environmental factors. Still, I wouldn't be deterred, especially at the starting charges for what you are proposing. Let us know how it turns out for you.
- Thread starter
- #8
DrMike":2f09ogs4 said:
I will be using a chronograph, hoping for ~2600 fps (bullet needs to obdurate properly.)
How does the powder burn rate get entered into the formula? I presume there is a lookup table with a value for "CFE 223", but an actual value not something the layman is ever privy to - we're only given a rough list of relative rates - then told not to rely on it!
Again, thanks so much!
Brian
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,312
- 5,978
Factors affecting burn rates ensure such disparate variations that it is almost impossible to factor them into QL. It is best to simply accept the average given and mentally allow for up to ten percent variation through observation of pressure signs. Different powders exhibit different burn rates dependent upon case fill and bullet weight. It is my understanding that CFE 223 is one of those powders that changes burn rate as bullet weight increases. This could account for the instability the good folks at Hodgdon referenced.
- Thread starter
- #10
DrMike":3k0z5rqd said:
For one thing, CFE is a ball powder, and those tend to be more erratic than stick powders, and more often produce a low load density. Speer, for example, often recommends magnum primers for ball powders like H380 even in small cartridges.
I think I'll try 33 grains of CFE 223.
Brian
- Thread starter
- #11
Update:
I settled on 34 grains CFE 223 and fired 5 of the Tubb F.F. bullets. Of these I chronographed the last 4 shots. The average was 2606 fps, but erratic - they varied between 2517 and 2710 fps.
I assume anything > 2500 fps will adequately obdurate the bullet, specifically mentioned in the Tubb instructions. There was significant felt recoil - it sure felt like the bullet was getting kicked in the butt anyway. As the lapping progresses I may see less velocity spread.
In any event, I did not blow up the gun trying to estimate a starting load, nor were there any undue pressure signs. So now I will continue through the Tubb bullets (45 more to go.)
Special thanks to DrMike for the model data.
Brian
I settled on 34 grains CFE 223 and fired 5 of the Tubb F.F. bullets. Of these I chronographed the last 4 shots. The average was 2606 fps, but erratic - they varied between 2517 and 2710 fps.
I assume anything > 2500 fps will adequately obdurate the bullet, specifically mentioned in the Tubb instructions. There was significant felt recoil - it sure felt like the bullet was getting kicked in the butt anyway. As the lapping progresses I may see less velocity spread.
In any event, I did not blow up the gun trying to estimate a starting load, nor were there any undue pressure signs. So now I will continue through the Tubb bullets (45 more to go.)
Special thanks to DrMike for the model data.
Brian
- Thread starter
- #13
I only fired 5 of the first 10 (the most aggressive) bullets, just to see if the gun blew up :shock: , and to clock them, so I could adjust the charge for the other loads if required.
Since it's CFE 223 powder, I was curious if I would get any copper fouling, knowing how badly it fouled before (the whole reason for the Tubb treatment.) As it turned out I did get some copper fouling, but it cleaned out much more easily than before (using Patch Out.)
My thoughts on the copper are that, since I am running such a small amount of powder (only 34 grains in a case that holds, as I recall, 58 grains of CFE) the stuff doesn't have a fair chance to do its magic and clean up after itself, as it were. And the 107-gr Sierras have a lot of bearing surface, so there's plenty of copper being presented to the bore.
I will update as I progress through the Tubb series.
Brian
Since it's CFE 223 powder, I was curious if I would get any copper fouling, knowing how badly it fouled before (the whole reason for the Tubb treatment.) As it turned out I did get some copper fouling, but it cleaned out much more easily than before (using Patch Out.)
My thoughts on the copper are that, since I am running such a small amount of powder (only 34 grains in a case that holds, as I recall, 58 grains of CFE) the stuff doesn't have a fair chance to do its magic and clean up after itself, as it were. And the 107-gr Sierras have a lot of bearing surface, so there's plenty of copper being presented to the bore.
I will update as I progress through the Tubb series.
Brian
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,746
- 5,817
Used the FF bullets some years back on a 7mm mag Sendero that was fouling pretty easily.
Easy process. Not sure if they really did a lot for my rifle, but it was accurate before and after. Fouling was reduced as I recall. It's been a while, sold that rifle long ago.
Guy
Easy process. Not sure if they really did a lot for my rifle, but it was accurate before and after. Fouling was reduced as I recall. It's been a while, sold that rifle long ago.
Guy
- Thread starter
- #15
Update:
I am 4/5 through The Final Finish series - all 4 abrasive sets fired. Now there are ten rounds of regular Tubb boron nitride-coated bullets for final "burnishing".
I have been using 34.0 grains of CFE 223 at 2650 fps for this process. But I have encountered significant copper fouling along the way, to my surprise, especially early on - it has been reduced considerably as one might expect. But, since CFE 223 is supposed to eliminate copper fouling, I'm somewhat taken aback.
I have a theory as to why: Since I am shooting long 107-grain bullet, with a light load of fast-burning (for heavy 6mm bullet) powder, it could be that there is not enough CFE being burned to vaporize and eliminate the copper being laid down by the large bearing surface of these bullets. The CFE might only work properly in near full-charge loads.
It would be interesting to bore scope this barrel when it is fouled, and see if the copper is laid down primarily towards the muzzle, rather than near the chamber. I can say for sure that, after firing a few rounds, there is copper readily visible in good sunlight just inside the muzzle. Maybe the CFE gets depleted before the bullet leaves the barrel.
Another thought - these Tubb bullets are boron nitride coated, which is actually a somewhat copper color itself - less orange and more bronze hued. I would think this would reduce copper fouling in a smooth bore. When I use the Patch-Out cleaner, I get definite blue color on the patches.
Anyway, I had hoped using CFE would have eliminated the copper and made the repeated cleaning (every five rounds) a lot easier than it has been.
Any comments appreciated.
I am 4/5 through The Final Finish series - all 4 abrasive sets fired. Now there are ten rounds of regular Tubb boron nitride-coated bullets for final "burnishing".
I have been using 34.0 grains of CFE 223 at 2650 fps for this process. But I have encountered significant copper fouling along the way, to my surprise, especially early on - it has been reduced considerably as one might expect. But, since CFE 223 is supposed to eliminate copper fouling, I'm somewhat taken aback.
I have a theory as to why: Since I am shooting long 107-grain bullet, with a light load of fast-burning (for heavy 6mm bullet) powder, it could be that there is not enough CFE being burned to vaporize and eliminate the copper being laid down by the large bearing surface of these bullets. The CFE might only work properly in near full-charge loads.
It would be interesting to bore scope this barrel when it is fouled, and see if the copper is laid down primarily towards the muzzle, rather than near the chamber. I can say for sure that, after firing a few rounds, there is copper readily visible in good sunlight just inside the muzzle. Maybe the CFE gets depleted before the bullet leaves the barrel.
Another thought - these Tubb bullets are boron nitride coated, which is actually a somewhat copper color itself - less orange and more bronze hued. I would think this would reduce copper fouling in a smooth bore. When I use the Patch-Out cleaner, I get definite blue color on the patches.
Anyway, I had hoped using CFE would have eliminated the copper and made the repeated cleaning (every five rounds) a lot easier than it has been.
Any comments appreciated.
