Looking for input on 30-06 loads

[6mm Remington]

FWIW...



Mr Miller, IMHO -if you find a load that works, use it, dont try fix it.

I'm with you Thankful Otter! I work up one really good load for each of my rifles and that is what I shoot in them and what I use. It works for me. Guess I'm boring too!

David

 

[jason miller]

Thanks guys- and Guy. Ha! I guess I knew/know that 2780 with a 165 PT is "good enough" for this rifle. I was hoping for some reassurance, and figured this crowd would be good for that.

I just can't help but think that I could be doing basically the same thing with a good deal less powder in a .308...

 

[tddeangelo]

You could.

Why would that bear on what's the right load for you, your uses, and your satisfaction with your 30-06?

 

[Elkman]

Jason
If you add a grain or two to the load, does that significantly alter group size? Pressure? A cloverleaf is not required to be successful on big game. The standard when I first started shooting was three inches, that has magically decreased over time. But I am not sure why. I am happy with an inch, but again thats even smaller than necessary and at most game ranges. Just my .02

 

[Gunner46]

"IF" you truly feel you need more than your 200 grain load, then you should just give up on that rifle and seek else where...

I, personally, am not a big 30/06 fan (7mm & 338 guy) but that load is as good as any I can imagine.

Go forth and slay game at will.....

 

[Guy Miner]

Up until recently, 200 grain Accubonds with RL17 at about 2725 fps have been the only load that groups consistently well.

This sentence was kind of lost in the shuffle, but I was/am impressed. That's a lot of velocity with an excellent heavy .30 caliber bullet.

It's more powerful than the ammo I used on my grizzly hunt, which was a 200 gr Nosler Partition at just a bit over 2600 fps, with H4350. My load shot so well, I just left it at that level. No problem with it on targets out to 300 yards, and no problem working well on the bear at 40 yards either.

Guy

 

[Polaris]

How does that 200 grainer kick in the featherweight? What do 150's do in your rifle? There is some experimenting to be done, I just wouldn't fixate on top velocity or micro groups. Decide what the role of this rifle is, and find a load suitable for filling that role. As above, .308 speeds with a 165 will get it done quite nicely and should be pretty pleasant to shoot.

My experience with .30-06 is with 150 and 180 grain bullets at full power, 168 match bullets at reduced (M1 Garand) speeds. I have gotten impressive velocity, accuracy and terminal results with the cup-and-core Sierra 150 flat base and IMR 4064. Approaching 3000fps from a 21" M17 barrel. Not new or sexy or hyped as temperature insensitive etc, but I absolutely love this powder in any application for which it is suitable. I use a lot of it from 6.5x55 through 7.62x54R, and it just seems to give good results with little experimentation. Another sleeper for the 30-06 with 150-165 grain bullets is IMR4320. Meters well and gives good speed and accuracy. Was an old lot that I worked with, not sure how new-made would perform. Mine seemed a little fast, hit higher than predicted velocities and beginning pressure signs at 95%.

 

[truck driver]

Not doubting Jason's RL17 load and velocities but since it isn't listed by Nosler I'm curious what powder charge he used to get the 2725fps with the 200gr AB. No doubt RL17 gives up some fast velocities in other large case capacity cartridges like the 338Wm with medium weight bullets.

 

[jason miller]

For full disclosure, I didn't grow up in a hunting family. I did a little hunting a got a couple deer, but never beyond about 40 yards. That was when rifles weren't legal in my home state so I started with a 12 gauge before switching to a recurve and then a longbow. But I was always interested in rifles. I read every outdoor magazine I could get my hands on and studied ballistics tables at a pretty young age. I just didn't ever know anyone else who was actually interested in rifles or ballistics or handloading. I've only recently found a friend who shares this interest on this level and isn't just a forum user name. Unfortunately, we met right before I moved back to Indiana from Colorado. Fortunately, he still lives in Colorado and finally got into an area with some elk last year after looking for a few years. I also just started a family and have a 6-month-old daughter, but the possibility of finally going on some real hunts in the next few years is better than it ever has been for me. So, while I've shot rifles at inanimate objects out to 1,200 yards, I've never shot a big-game animal past about 40. But the possibility of doing so in the future is more realistic for me than it ever has been before. And rifles are now legal for deer hunting in Indiana, and my Grandpa owns a lot of farmland with little wood lots.

So I have an old Savage .338 WM that I finally got shooting worth a damn after I replaced the stock with a Bell and Carlson and bedded it. It's got a Leupold VX1 4-12x40 with the LR Duplex reticle. I stole John Barsness' load of a 200 grain Ballistic Tip at 2900ish fps with RL15, and the rifle stacked 8 of them into an inch and a half the other week while cranking the scope's magnification ring up and down to verify that magnification change wouldn't also change impact. I'll go ahead and call that my primary rifle and good to go. It weighs 8.58 lbs scoped.

Since I was in grade school, I always wanted a Win 70 FW. I also always wanted a 30-06. A few years back, I found an FN-made FW with really nice walnut in 30-06 that I couldn't resist. I have a VX2 3-9 mounted on it. Standard duplex. It's 8.05 lbs scoped.

I've never carried a rifle hunting before, but I have carried 40ish pounds in a pack and another 42 lbs worth of child on my shoulders 17 miles in two days up to treeline and back. I've also hiked twenty-some of Colorado's "14ers." I'm thinking an 8.5 lb .338 shouldn't pose too much problem. So this 30-06 probably won't ever even see much use. But I'd like it to be as effective of a back-up as possible, should I need it. It also might get used on some whitetails here in Indiana, with longer shots being a definite possibility.

Hopefully that answers any questions about possible uses for this rifle and where I'm coming from in asking about reassurance from people who actually have experience shooting at animals at 300 yards and more.

 

[jason miller]

As to loads I've already tried....

I started with 180's because that always seemed like the "classic" bullet for a 30-06 in my mind. I have been aware since before I was 10 years old that 2800 fps is a realistic upper threshold in this combination. So that's what I wanted this rifle to shoot- a 180 Partition at 2800 fps. I tried H4350, H4831, Hunter, RL17, RL22, and IMR 7828. None of it grouped better than 1.5" at best, at anything from just under 2700 to just over 2800 fps. I tried Ballistic Tips, too. No go.

Next, I tried 165 Speer BTSP's and 168 Ballistic Tips because the 165 class is other other "classic" bullet weight for a 30-06 in my mind. H4350, RL17, RL15, 7828, Hunter, and Big Game were all given a go from 2850ish to 3000 fps. None of it shot better than 1.5" at best. Btw, I believe 57.5 grains of RL17 is the top load I've tried, since someone asked.

Next, I bought a box of 200 grain Accubonds. I stole a load from Woods, who used to post here, and worked up to 54.5 grains of RL17 for a bit over 2700 fps. It shot great. I then tried H4350 and H4831 because I can't leave well enough alone and I was curious. Neither of them got as good of velocity or groups before running out of case or hitting pressure. I shot the rest of those bullets up because, well, I like to shoot. They always shot well with the RL17 load.

I also tried a box of the Barnes 150 TTSX bullets. I went straight to Ramshot Big Game, because I had read John Barsness' article about the 30-06. I worked up to 58.5 grains, which grouped great right at 3050 fps. Just like JB said. I shot all those up, again because I like shooting. I could get some more, but I just never think "150 grain bullets" when I think of the 30-06.

Finally, I have half a box of the Barnes 130 TTSX left. I worked them all the way up to 3300 fps with Ramshot Big Game, but never revisited it for groups. Again, my mind is predetermined that a 30-06 is supposed to shoot 165 or 180 grain bullets.


So in all honesty, I have the options of a 150 at 3050 that groups well, a 165 at 2900 that groups 1.5 MOA, a 165 at 2780 that groups great, a 180 at 2800 that groups 1.5 MOA, or a 200 at 2725 that groups great.

I guess the reality of my "problem" is that I don't truly have a problem and have too many options to pick from. Ha! I would have been done long ago if this rifle had just shot sub-MOA with 180 Partitions at 2800ish fps. But it's winter. Aren't we supposed to debate all the minutia in our heads when we're stuck in the house? Especially with a baby...

 

[fightthenoise]

I’d definitely haul the .338 into the backcountry. It shoots, it’s got a composite stock, it can be beat around and dropped, etc. The FW would be a great whitetail gun in Indiana so both rifles get some action every year. 8.5lb is a good balance of light for carrying but heavy enough to not beat you up, not that you need that aspect. Sounds like you have lots of time behind it. Good luck in Colorado! I just moved here last spring and am wrapping up my first hunting season. Learned a lot but came up empty. Can’t wait for next year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lefty315]

I'd say your 165 at 2780 would do most anything but if you ever went on an elk hunt you could always readjust your scope for that 200 grain load. Not that a 165 wouldn't work but it gives you options. Enjoy that new daughter, she'll be hunting with you before you know it.

 

[DrMike]

I'd say your 165 at 2780 would do most anything but if you ever went on an elk hunt you could always readjust your scope for that 200 grain load. Not that a 165 wouldn't work but it gives you options. Enjoy that new daughter, she'll be hunting with you before you know it.

This! All the way through--this.

 

[BretN]

Sounds like you have some good loads developed already. Frankly, any of them would work, but I always pick accuracy first. That 150 Barnes load would really be a laser and they are a heck of a good stout bullet. Yes, I too think 165's in both my 308 and 30-06's, but that 200 AccuBond load of yours would be great elk medicine.

 

[Guy Miner]

Jason - I think you've found your loads.

Guy

 

[Thankful Otter]

I have been ask to expand on my comments to Mr Miller

Sir, I used a 30-06 and Rem Core Lokt for years on all game without a problem. However I dont remember ever shooting an animal at 300 yards, are shots are/were much closer.

Approx 3 years ago I was mentoring a young lady and got her a 30-06 and ask my grandfather to hand load some 165 Nosler Partitions up for her and he used 58 grains of H4350 ( 57 to 59 anyway ). She also does not shoot game at distances over 200, maybe 250 yards, so your 300 yard requirement just doesn't happen here, as it does apparently everywhere else. To my knowledge she has successfully hunted Caribou, Brown Bear, Black Bear, Wolf, Moose, and deer with this combination. I traded my 30-06 in for a 300 H & H, however I use a 348 most of the time but if I am going on a dedicated sheep or goat hunt, I like the 275 H & H, so for the most part the 30 caliber's have been retired, but the 30-06 will always have place in my heart as well as in the corner of the office.

 

[DrMike]

Cheyenne is correct (as Guy demonstrated during the past months). The individual armed with a 30-06, and especially if that individual understands how to use the firearm, is never undergunned here in North America. The 30-06 is never a bad choice. Consequently, Jason, my Featherweight 30-06 is a delight. Before I acquired it, I had a CZ 550 FS which I loved. Though it only had a 20.5 inch barrel, it worked very well on game.

 

[Guy Miner]

This has become a fun discussion. I think most of us are finished with our big game hunts, and now we're kind of sitting around the fire, gabbing about things. I'm glad we're gabbing about the good old 30-06 here! Thanks Jason, for opening up this discussion.

Much respect for Thankful Otter, using the 30-06 and factory ammo for polar bear & more. If we think back, an awful lot of hunters did just that: grab a box of 180 gr factory soft points, sight-in the rifle, and go hunt! I like it, though like most here, I do enjoy crafting my own ammo.

I think the 30-06 gets overlooked a lot these days, particularly for large game, for several reasons:

1. It's old. Almost as old as some of our forum members! :grin:

2. We often think of it as a "deer rifle" because that's what most of us hunt, most of the time. Deer sized game. And the 30-06 is often seen in that role. So, if it's a deer rifle, and we're thinking about hunting something bigger such as elk, moose, big bears... We obviously "need" a bigger rifle... Right?

3. It's not nearly as cool as some of the newer, smaller kids on the block, like the suddenly popular 6.5 Creedmoor. Those smaller cartridges are of course just fine for deer hunting, and have a fair bit less recoil than our old 30-06 does.

So the 30-06 gets looked at as unnecessarily big for deer, and too small for elk & larger.

One of the reasons I took game exclusively with the 30-06 in 2016 and the spring of 2017 was that I knew I had the opportunity to do a lot of big game hunting, more than I normally do, and I wanted to do it all with one rifle. My fall hunts were, in a way, prep for the spring bear hunt.

Obviously the rifle worked very well for me! :grin: I enjoyed the heck out of those hunts and was successful on a wide variety of game from wolf & antelope on the small end to elk & grizzly on the large end. All with one rifle! I did use two different loads:

165 Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2900 fps
200 Nosler Partition at 2600 fps

Honestly, I feel I could have done just fine with a 180 Nosler Partition (or AccuBond) at 2700 - 2800 fps, for everything.

Guy

 

[Elkman]

At one time I had 5, 06's, after undershooting a couple of elk, I discovered the 300 WM, that was born the year I graduated from high school. Of course this was prior to pocket sized range finders and scopes that had adjustable turret's. Those three innovations extended my ability to take deer and elk couple of hundred yards farther out. Of course the 06 will reach out there also, but without as much thump. I have nothing against the 06 its a fantastic cartridge, and recommended that caliber to my son in law and grandson when they got their rifles. In fact my son in law has one of mine. A great cartridge and a with a great history, but it will never be a 300 WM.

 

[Europe]

At one time I had 5, 06's, after undershooting a couple of elk, I discovered the 300 WM, that was born the year I graduated from high school. Of course this was prior to pocket sized range finders and scopes that had adjustable turret's. Those three innovations extended my ability to take deer and elk couple of hundred yards farther out. Of course the 06 will reach out there also, but without as much thump. I have nothing against the 06 its a fantastic cartridge, and recommended that caliber to my son in law and grandson when they got their rifles. In fact my son in law has one of mine. A great cartridge and a with a great history, but it will never be a 300 WM.

Bill, I went with the 300 H & H early on and although you can use the short action and less powder in the 300WSM, they are very close as far as performance . I never liked or at least felt the 300 win or 300 weatherby was something I needed. The 300 H & H always did whatever I was asking of her. Plus Dr Mike and I was born the same year she was LOL

Guy, I always felt Cheyenne was born in the wrong generation and she also makes me smile when she speaks of hunting Polar Bears, Muskox, and Walrus with a 30-06 and store bought ammo. But I think it was Hodgeman that said he also has no problem or uses the Remington Core Lok ammo. I agree with you, the 30-06 and a 180 grain bullet would have been the only thing you needed to harvest all the animals you did this year, excellent point Guy.

Oh, and I am sure you had people like Dr. Mike and I in mind on your point Number 1 LOL

Also, I know several women who have and use the 300 H & H, which makes me want to ask, is the 300 H & H an out of favor chambering among our male members ? Bill the 300WSM, Guy the 30-06, and I do not know this for sure, but I bet Fotis has a 300 Weatherby. Is the 300 H & H just too "clunky", "heavy", "old", " the action is too large " or it just can't keep up with some of the new kids on the block, ballistically ?