Looking for input on 30-06 loads

[tddeangelo]

Funny you mention the 300's....WSM and H&H...being near twins. I own and shoot both. I shoot 180gr Partitions in both. 3015fps in the H&H and 2975fps in the WSM. Just where those individual rifles shoot. Functional difference is zilch, although the WSM does it with a 24" barrel vs the 26" tube on the H&H.

The WSM is an M70 Extreme Weather. It's the "go take care of bidness" rifle. The H&H is a prewar M70 in a wood stock. It's the "dressed up and doing the job with style" rifle.

Or...that's what I tell myself.

I carry the 300WSM a lot when I hunt with my daughter because it's got a comp stock and is light, compact (ish), and generally won't get used unless her shot didn't quite finish the job. In reality, nearly all my rifles could fit this bill, but the 300 just seems to fit it the best.

When I hunt solo, I often find myself with my pre64 M70's...either the 30-06 or the 270. My 35 Whelen was about done with load work, then I ran my can of 4320 dry and shot my MagnetoSpeed (don't ask) in speed-checking the new can. Doh. That one's a good all-arounder too...but I digress...

For all my various stuff I've hoarded...er...collected, I am fairly sure I still haven't had all my other chamberings combined exceed my deer count with the venerable 30-06, and most were still with the 150gr Hornady Interlock at about 2800fps.

Close second is the 30-06 with a 165gr boattailed Interlock at a more speedy 2900-3000....if the chrono at the time is to be believed (and I'm not sure I believe it). Those were Hornady Light Magnum loads, and I can't run them on a chrono now. I have some left, but they age very poorly, and give weird and erratic speeds after they get some years on them.

My current handload, as mentioned, runs about 2700 for a 165 and just works all day long. I've thought of putting that rifle to a flat spot workup and see what I find. Just because I can and I'm curious.

I charge that one with IMR4350. My old man's fwt M70 I worked up with RL...17? 22? I forget now. I'd have to check the data. He still grumbles because it doesn't shoot bug holes at 100 yards, but I had it shooting about 4" at 300 consistently, so my point was that there was no way he'd miss a single deer he aimed at if he did his part properly...but he wants tiny 100 yard groups. He won't shoot much over 200-250 anymore, so functionally I just can't see where there's an issue, but he's grouchy and wants it shooting smaller 100 yard groups. Old habits die hard, I guess. His may be the first I run over the magspeed when I start load work in March/April.

And, in the spirit of this thread on the old aught-6, I'll make sure to post that stuff when I do it. I'll bet the fwt will be doing just fine till I get it all done.

 

[truck driver]

At one time I only owned one rifle and it was a well used M725 in 30-06 shot it so much I wore the barrel out. Had it rebarreled to .257 Rob and it is a tack driver but missed my 30-06 so I bought my first brand new rifle, a M77 tang safety 30-06 and that was my go to gun when I needed something that would just flat out work shooting 165gr innerlocks at around 2800fps killed everything I shot at.
Makes me wonder why I bought the other rifles.

April the 300 H&H was one of those mysterious cartridges that amazed me as a teenager and thought I needed till my father proved to me the 30-06 was all I needed. So why do I have a 7mmRem,35Whelen/AI and a 338Wm? Because I let a bunch of enablers convince me I needed them. >)

 

[lefty315]

The only reason the .30-06 was ever created was to make sure that someday we'd have enough brass to neck up and make .35 Whelen ammo!!!

In all seriousness...actually I got nothing, I just wanted to say that about the .35 Whelen

 

[DrMike]

The only reason the .30-06 was ever created was to make sure that someday we'd have enough brass to neck up and make .35 Whelen ammo!!!

In all seriousness...actually I got nothing, I just wanted to say that about the .35 Whelen

Hear! Hear! Excellent insight; excellent insight. :mrgreen:

 

[jason miller]

Jason - I think you've found your loads.

Guy

Touché.

But which one to pick?!? Seriously, which would you run? As someone who's demonstrated their knowledgeability over the years I've been reading this forum and who personally uses the 30-06 a good deal, I'd value your input on which you would run.

150 TTSX at 3050, sub-MOA
165 PT at 2780, sub-MOA
165/8 BT at over 2900, 1.5-2 MOA
180 take your pick, 2700-2800, 1.5-2 MOA
200 AB at 2725, sub-MOA

Or even a 130 TTSX at 3300+ fps, accuracy potential unknown but it would be a freakin' 300 yard laser beam...

 

[jason miller]

Maybe that's the real beauty of the 30-06.... Lots of options to try out!

 

[tddeangelo]

I'd take that 165 PT load all day long.

And I never necked up 30-06 brass to whelen brass, but I did rebore a rifle in that manner!

 

[tddeangelo]

For a point of reference, I have my daughter's 7mmWSM shooting a 140PT at about 2600. Pretty "blah" for a 7mmWSM. Pretty pedestrian for a 7-08 for that matter. She shot a very nice 8pt with this this year at 125 yards and it made a wound channel I could have convinced most hunters was done with a full-snort 7mmWSM round.

2700, 165PT, 30-06, sub-MOA....not much gonna walk away from that.

 

[jason miller]

That's very true, and I definitely won't argue. But what if the shot had been at 325 yards instead of 125?

 

[tddeangelo]

What are we shooting at 325? Short of an elephant, I'd guess it would be a dead critter if your aim was true.

 

[tddeangelo]

Point of reference....

I shot a mature whitetail doe at 397 yards with my 30-06 and 165gr Hornady Interlocks from a Light Magnum factory round. 3000fps? Sounds good, let's roll with that.

According to my ballistics calculator, that would give it an arrival speed around 2200fps. Went through her pelvis, through her liver, and into her lungs. She dropped where she stood.

Your 2700fps load with a 165PT will be making about 2050fps at 325 yards. You're fine.

 

[jason miller]

I meant more along the lines of that extra potential 200 fps or whatever and its effect on trajectory. Again, while I've plinked at steel targets and clay pigeons at long ranges, I've never shot at an animal at anything resembling long range.

There comes a time when holdover must be accounted for. It seems that an extra 100, 200, or even 400 fps might only extend that range 50 yards at most. Without experience myself, I'm appreciative of reading others' experiences in accounting for additional drop with below-max loads at ranges past maximum point blank range- which seems to happen as one approaches 300 yards or so...

 

[tddeangelo]

Ok, so that Hornady load, with a 200 yard zero, would be -9" at 325.

Your load will be -12.3" at 325.

In essence, you get 4MOA of drop vs 3MOA for a faster load.

If you hold 3MOA high, forgetting you're running a bit slower, and hit 1MOA lower from POA than you intended, you've still got a pretty dead critter, unless you're hunting prairie dogs with a 30-06 and NPT's!

 

[fightthenoise]

The good thing about drop is that it’s predictable and repeatable and you will be able to compensate for it no matter which load you choose. At 400 yards if it’s 5” or 15”, it doesn’t make the shot any more difficult, you just have to know what it is through math and practice at the range. Don’t dismiss an otherwise accurate load because of a bit of extra drop. Just know the hold and be able to execute it when your heart is beating in your throat!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Anonymous]

I have a real soft spot for the '06. Back in the way back when, I had a couple of them and did a lot of hunting with them along with some control work...lots of critters on the ground, all with factory ammo. Some Corelokts, quite a few with the old Winchester Silvertips.

I could hunt the rest of my days with an '06 and a case of Remington Corelokts and not feel like I was undergunned in any way.

If there's any criticism I have toward the '06 it is that it's just so boring. I not only like shooting and hunting, but I like talking and writing about guns and cartridges as well. And there's just nothing I can say or write about the '06 that people with far better chops than I haven't said already, in some cases almost a century ago (the .270 shares that trait as well for nearly as long). I think I put it this way- "The '06 firing a 180gr bullet is one of the most splendidly boring ballistic combinations ever devised by man." A lot of people think of Alaska and automatically assume everyone carries a .338 or a .375...I know FAR more guys (and ladies) packing '06s than almost everything else combined.

I drifted to the .300WSM some years ago, because I liked the rifle so much and the cartridge just grew on me later. I've messed with the .270 and the 7-08 quite a bit and liked them. I've used the .308 for nearly as long as the '06. I picked up a 6.5 Creedmoor this year, fully prepared to hate it...but I don't- it's just the most charismatic cartridge to come along in quite some time.

But, if I ever had a mind to...I could dump them all and pick up a snazzy '06 and a case of ammo and not miss a beat in the field. While a lot of folks think the '06 is "old"...given modern powder and bullets it's better than it ever has been!

 

[Thankful Otter]

If there's any criticism I have toward the '06 it is that it's just so boring. I not only like shooting and hunting, but I like talking and writing about guns and cartridges as well.

One of the advantages of being wealthy. Those of us who work for a living, like boring, as we have no time "to play" with every Johnny come lately caliber and bullet that shows up on the radar. What exactly can this new do everything Creedmore do that the old Swede can not ? Without researching it, it probably shoots "further" which lets one shoot game a loooooong ways out there. What happen to stalking and hunting, or is that. like the 30-06, out of favor ?

I am the epitome of boring. I went from the 30-06 to a 348, which has even less reach--- I think I am missing the point.

And finally it is kinda of sad I have to add this, but the last time I joked with Hodgeman, it was not looked upon favorably. So for those here with no sense of humor I am joking with Hodgeman and a few others like David, who shoots an even more boring 6mm, just so he can shoot game at 500 yards and not waste his time stalking them

 

[Anonymous]

One of the advantages of being wealthy... What exactly can this new do everything Creedmore do that the old Swede can not ?
And finally it is kinda of sad I have to add this, but the last time I joked with Hodgeman, it was not looked upon favorably. So for those here with no sense of humor I am joking with Hodgeman and a few others like David, who shoots an even more boring 6mm, just so he can shoot game at 500 yards and not waste his time stalking them

LOL... wealthy, not by a long shot (pun intended), but a guy without vices has to keep himself occupied during the long winter months.

While I know the Creedmoor has a large fan club that extols its virtues to the point of hyperbole...about the only thing the Creed will do that the Swede will not is fit into a short action! Of course, in the game killing department- both of them seem to punch well above their weight class.

I do wish the folks hanging out here who take it upon themselves to find offenses on behalf of others (who didn't find any offense firsthand)...would simply migrate along the path of life to somewhere else... somewhere more suitable to their weak constitutions and fragile sensibilities.

 

[bowfishn]

My m70 featherweight hasn't ever been a great-shooting rifle. It doesn't much care for 180's. It doesn't shoot different weight bullets anywhere near the same location. The barrel heats up quickly and it doesn't group with a hot barrel. Load development has always been a struggle.

Up until recently, 200 grain Accubonds with RL17 at about 2725 fps have been the only load that groups consistently well. I had just about given up and decided to buy another box of those bullets and just have one load for the rifle. But I went ahead and re-bedded the rifle and tried some 165 Partitions that I found an old partial box of. Loaded up some RL15 and H4350 and hit the range. The top H4350 load, 58.5 grains, stacked all three into a perfect cloverleaf. But they only went 2780 fps. I only had 20 left and didn't want to waste the rest of them chasing more speed, so I came home and loaded them up.

So, I'm wondering, am I really ever going to notice the 100-150 fps I'm leaving on the table? I've also got some 168 Ballistic Tips left. I've pushed them to 3,000 fps with RL17 before, but never found a load that grouped very well. Do I try to see if they also group better at the lower speed? And if I'm gonna be shooting 165-class bullets at 2780, would I be better off just shooting 200's at 2725? Or, again, am I really ever going to even notice?

Interesting, that RL17 acts a lot like my H205 I use in my 30-06, I have always used it with 165 gr bullets. When I run the numbers in QL it comes real close to the case fill and velocity I get. I am using HBN coated bullets now, it helps keep pressures down with the velocity I get. Have been using H205 since the Eighties it propels a 165 gr projectile at 3100 fps out of my 24" Sako Finnbear with sub min groups at 100 yards, usually 1/2" - 1" with 5 shots.
I use Nosler Balistic Tip and Accubonds now. Accubonds require a bit less powder to get same velocity, must be a thicker jacket.
The RL17 looks interesting for heavy bullets but I am going to try RL26, it will hit velocities with a bit less pressure. I use it with my 6.5 Creed right now but will be experimenting with the 06 and heavies using it.

 

[Nimrod84]

Jason Miller,

The short version is: If it were me, I would probably keep experimenting with the 165 grain BT loads and see if you can get something in the 2800-2850 fps range that shoots at 1-1.25 MOA or better consistently. A 2 MOA load at 100 yards would be an 8" group at 400 yards before accounting for shooter / wind / ranging errors; I would want something a bit tighter than before letting fly on an whitetail at that range. I would then probably fall back to the 200 grain AccuBond (if load cost and recoil are low enough for you to get a lot of practice in) as my backup load if I couldn't get comfortable with the 165 grain BT.

I guess the reality of my "problem" is that I don't truly have a problem and have too many options to pick from. Ha! I would have been done long ago if this rifle had just shot sub-MOA with 180 Partitions at 2800ish fps. But it's winter. Aren't we supposed to debate all the minutia in our heads when we're stuck in the house?

Absolutely on all counts!

There comes a time when holdover must be accounted for. It seems that an extra 100, 200, or even 400 fps might only extend that range 50 yards at most. Without experience myself, I'm appreciative of reading others' experiences in accounting for additional drop with below-max loads at ranges past maximum point blank range- which seems to happen as one approaches 300 yards or so...

The big issue I run into is wind-drift. Might not be an issue in your neck of the woods, but with a laser rangefinder I usually can have a good enough idea on range to account for it. Hunting the same property allows one to range and learn the terrain over the hunting seasons... Wind though changes and otherwise is hard to account for at the exact moment of the shot. Speed and the bullets ballistic coefficient definitely helps extend both point blank range and minimize wind-drift.

Earlier you mentioned velocity of your 30-06 load mimicking a 308 Win. There isn't anything really wrong with the 308 Win, they get used for 1000 yard competitions quite regularly in Palma and other matches. What the 30-06 provides over the 308 Win is the ability to launch heavier bullets at faster velocities than the 308 Win can. The 308 / 7.62 Nato round was designed to closely duplicate the 30-06 150 grain M2 and to a lesser degree the 30-06 162-165 grain Armor Piercing ammo. So a 180 grain and your 200 grain AccuBond load let your 30-06 fill its niche.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[6mm Remington]

And finally it is kinda of sad I have to add this, but the last time I joked with Hodgeman, it was not looked upon favorably. So for those here with no sense of humor I am joking with Hodgeman and a few others like David, who shoots an even more boring 6mm, just so he can shoot game at 500 yards and not waste his time stalking them

Cheyenne I cannot believe you called the 6mm Remington boring! My gosh that's one awesome little cartridge. I know the 30-06 is boring too because it just does everything so well! As for Hodgeman he deserves to be picked on.

David