M700 vs M7

[tjen]

Ask the barrel manufactures and unless your trying to build a smaller lighter rifle its going to be the 700. I would concider the model #7 for a carrying around small cal like a hornet/221/222/223 or may be a 6.8mm/35rem etc... I used a 700 for my 358win.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Just to interject something here, Long range ballistics depends on a whole lot more than short range. Here me out, many factors are to be considered past 100 yards and I heard none of them mentioned yet. Here's my take. Velocity, they change from shot to shot and have a very significant effect at longer ranges versus shorter ones. Some rifles shoot sub moa at 100 with extreme spreads as high as 100 fps. This hurts long range ballistics. Bullet wobble, this is caused by not perfect bullet/bore alignment. The bullet actually will wobble in flight, which is not usually a problem under 300 yards. This is the reason for the bench rest dies and all of the collets the go along with them. The attempt is to perfect the bullet/bore alignment and have the exact same neck tension case to case. Air density and wind. These factors come into play and usually do not at 100 yards. Past 500 though, you will see the difference. Just my thoughts on a hotly debated subject.

.......................GB300! Thanks for the input!................Yes! I know....There are many different long range accuracy variables as the ballistics expert did imply as well, of which I knew; wind, weather conditions, bullet alignment to the bore, bullet wobble, reloading componetry in bullets, powder, charges, etc. etc. etc..........While there are many variables and if`s to deal with that cannot be set in stone, there are still basic laws in bullet/barrel ballistics, dynamics or behavior, which can be used as a guide (if you will), to come to a higher degree of probability in the field...........Even though my bias may be toward shorter rifles with shorter barrels (as we all have bias` toward something) and setting aside all of the other long range variables for accuracy, the one conclusion that can be drawn, which is set in stone is the fact, that to properly stabilize a bullet for flight, it does not require a longer barrel to do so! That is a fact in ballistics!..... If by chance someone were to say for example, that shorter barrels will not provide the downrange accuracy like the longer barrels, simply because the barrels are shorter,,is absolutely ludicrous. Aside from bullet stabilization, ANY variables in accuracy for long range shooting, apply to not only the shorter barrels, but to the longer barrels as well..............

 

[GB300wm]

I agree Big Squeeze. I don't think barrel length has much to do with long range accuracy. Just like you don't need a 50 cal to shoot 1000 yards. It's done daily with 308's and various 6.5's. Barrel length does tend to add velocity for obvious reasons, but shorter barrels do good with faster burning powders. I was just making a point of many reasons rifles may do great at 100 yards and not so hot at much longer distances. I have a rem xp-100 with a custom 15 inch barrel and it shoots sub moa at 500 yards. I'm sure your rifle barrel is longer than that.

 

[Big Squeeze]

I agree Big Squeeze. I don't think barrel length has much to do with long range accuracy. Just like you don't need a 50 cal to shoot 1000 yards. It's done daily with 308's and various 6.5's. Barrel length does tend to add velocity for obvious reasons, but shorter barrels do good with faster burning powders. I was just making a point of many reasons rifles may do great at 100 yards and not so hot at much longer distances. I have a rem xp-100 with a custom 15 inch barrel and it shoots sub moa at 500 yards. I'm sure your rifle barrel is longer than that.

..........GB300!........Great accuracy there at 500 yards..........Actually, not really!...The barrel on my Ruger Frontier 300 WSM is only 16.5" or only 1.5" longer than yours!!...........With my particular rifle, which may not be true with another 300 WSM Frontier (which Ruger no longer chambers for their Frontier), I am able to chrony some outstanding velocities, which was also a topic with the expert I talked with yesterday............He did indicate that given two identical rifles, same barrel lengths, loads, bullets, powder, primers etc., there can be a plus or minus swing of 100 to 150 fps. either way due to barrel tolerances. Then I apparently have a faster barrel, as I have chrono`d a 150 grainer @ 3145 fps., a 180 @ 2994 and a 200 gr. @ 2828 fps., or in essence, an overall loss of roughly 3.5% to 4.5% vs another 24" tubed 300 WSM I have chrono`d. That translates to a loss of 15 to 30 fps. per inch of shorter barrel length................Since you have a shorter tube and assuming there is a 24" tube available in the cartridge you`re using, have you chrono`d your shorty XP-100 and compared your findings to say a 24" tube in the same cartridge?? I`m just curious if your results in velocity loss also fall in between the 15 to 30 fps. per inch mark........

 

[GB300wm]

The xp-100 in question is chambered in 7mm IHMSA(300 Savage necked down) and I know of no rifles chambered for this cartridge which is optimized for pistol accuracy. It does has great ballistics for what it is and I believe the 15" barrel to be very stiff adding to it's inherent accuracy. I'm shooting a 145 grain speer bt at 2300 fps. The accuracy is phenomenal. Standard deviation is 4 across 10 shots. I was once a competitive shooter with this gun.

 

[Big Squeeze]

The xp-100 in question is chambered in 7mm IHMSA(300 Savage necked down) and I know of no rifles chambered for this cartridge which is optimized for pistol accuracy. It does has great ballistics for what it is and I believe the 15" barrel to be very stiff adding to it's inherent accuracy. I'm shooting a 145 grain speer bt at 2300 fps. The accuracy is phenomenal. Standard deviation is 4 across 10 shots. I was once a competitive shooter with this gun.

...............A 7mm/300 Savage? No 24" ers in that one for sure! It would have been interesting though, had you conducted some tests!........

 

[GB300wm]

Roger that Squeeze, it's specially designed for a long range pistol. Would really be accurate in a rifle though. A friend of mine has a 223 necked up to a 270 caliber bullet in a benchrest rifle and it shoots 1 hole groups at 100. We have fun shooting thumbtacks with the thing.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Roger that Squeeze, it's specially designed for a long range pistol. Would really be accurate in a rifle though. A friend of mine has a 223 necked up to a 270 caliber bullet in a benchrest rifle and it shoots 1 hole groups at 100. We have fun shooting thumbtacks with the thing.

...........GB300.............Well! Pistol or otherwise, custom or otherwise, it is still nevertheless a shorter barrel, which solidifies my point by your example that in fact, shorter tubes can and do shoot as well as the longer ones, with velocity as being the only advantage with a longer barrel...........Longer tube or shorter one, it is up to the reloader to find the best combo in components for his firearm, while recognizing of course that there are always variables having to do with accuracy in long range shooting that affect ALL barrel lengths......Our original poster inquired about a longer action vs a shorter action. Even after owning a fullsized 24" 300 Win. for 35 years, I will stand by my opinion that in fact, given a cartridge that performs well in a shorter tube, that the compact rifles do indeed, have the capability to do anything in the hunting fields like longer barreled tubes. The only variant, is a small percentage in velocity gain in favor of the longer tubes!..........I would like to see your 100 to 500 yard targets on that 15" 7mm/300 Savage sometime if you can post any pics............