Mini groups within 5 shot group

[slickrem]

does this string always run vertical ?

 

[bob_dobalina]

does this string always run vertical ?

not necessarily. and it's a small sample size, I've just seen it a few times, but it occurs. I just thought the "mini" groups might be a known anomaly, I'm in agreement with DrMike I should just ignore it and look at the whole group, which needs work

 

[slickrem]

not necessarily. and it's a small sample size, I've just seen it a few times, but it occurs. I just thought the "mini" groups might be a known anomaly, I'm in agreement with DrMike I should just ignore it and look at the whole group, which needs work

I wouldn't totally rule out Mikes stand.. I had similar shots once, a half inch apart, not to your extreme, which is almost 2 inches apart. I was told to drop a half a grain charge and it went away. ANY load form start to max never spread that far with any rifle I own or owned, bullet, case, primer, powder combination. I remember loading rounds with different neck tensions when I pulled them down with my bullet puller. Once I started to use push mandrels and the Lee collet die neck tension is consistent. I neve checked OD before seating and after, but I do now. Neck wall thickness varies and can effect bullet neck tension which definitely will cause pressure spikes hence stinging.


Try this..... too. Take the action out of the stock and examine where the recoil lug goes and the rear tang, to see if maybe if any abnormalities appear out of the ordinary, like excess torque when tightening screws, too much on one before the other.

 

[Bruce Mc]

When you say eccentric, what was wrong with it ?

Eccentric, the opposite of concentric. The bore was off center to the center line of the barrel.

 

[slickrem]

Eccentric, the opposite of concentric. The bore was off center to the center line of the barrel.

I hate when a word has two meanings. I always knew the word meant strange, not off center.

 

[slickrem]

If standard deviation or extreme spread is tight in your test samples, playing with seating depth is the quickest way to tighten a group. It is always possible that there is not enough room to seat the bullet deeper or there is another mechanical restriction inhibiting seating the bullet longer. In that case, you are driven to look at another powder and/or another bullet. Generally speaking, the LRX does like a jump to the lands. I normally start this monolithic bullets with a 0.100 jump, which can mean that it intrudes into the powder column quite a bit. If that is not feasible, there is little left except to turn to another powder and/or bullet.

Generally on this forum and on others, most guys are on the upper echelon of rifles. For many years I only could afford mediocre priced rifles, but even at that price wise I picked up a 300 Weatherby magnum Vanguard with a two lug bolt for 650 bucks. As far as I'm concerned the eight lug isn't needed. The accuracy after a few verses numerous ladder load test, was stellar. Normally I was working hard to find that "perfect" load for my other rifles. My point here is book OAL for the Bee and that's it. After getting through that learning curve of certain loading techniques I was on the road to consistency with my mediocre rifles, one I had to bed and free float the barrel. Did I play with seating depths? No. Did I play with OAL's? Yes. Did it and does it help? Yes, along with the right powder, bullet and a magnum primer. Among other things the SOURCE of the carriage before the horse syndrome is apparent to some and has to be told to others, me it had to be told. For countless years I banged my head against the wall at the loading bench and was fed try this try that mentality, it was very frustrating when the firing range told the truth and I blamed myself behind the rifle, in front of the bench, at the store buying the "magic" components, or seeing a guy dressed like a monk for Hodgdons saying "Praise the Load"

My issue was the rifle and to be honest that should be considered first and foremost not loads, loads are secondary. Considering my shooting skills were rather good from my father in law, who taught me well I ruled that out. What was the deal with my hand loads ?! One day I was fed up with the verbiage on powder canister labels, load manuals, magazines, PEOPLE, etc.... until I thought back from a ONE guy I belly ached to who said...... BUY A WEATHERBY and FORGET it. Back then I could barely afford reloading components let alone a premium rifle. And that's all he said to me. That's when I realized I have to eliminate all the possible problems with a stock rifle that can only shoot 1 inch at 100 if I do my part.

 

[TNBillyEarl]

What would you say about consistently having groups of 2 shots grouping, but those groups not grouping together. Pictures to explain. One pic is 175 LRX, one is 180 TTSX, both at approximately same seating depth (deep). When I don't seat as deep the groups just open up. Could it be my scope? Shooting form?

bob_d: Listen to every other person on here first, and to anyone who might chime in on what I offer here - but I think it might be the temp of your barrel interacting with these loads. I would suggest waiting 5 minutes or more between shot and check your groups. I had something similar with a mountain contour barrel that drove me nuts. When I finally got around to shooting it once a day, bringing my target back with me, it was a legit half-inch load that took a week to shoot.

B

 

[slickrem]

bob_d: Listen to every other person on here first, and to anyone who might chime in on what I offer here - but I think it might be the temp of your barrel interacting with these loads. I would suggest waiting 5 minutes or more between shot and check your groups. I had something similar with a mountain contour barrel that drove me nuts. When I finally got around to shooting it once a day, bringing my target back with me, it was a legit half-inch load that took a week to shoot.

B

good point but not that extreme spread after only 5 shots... by we don't know if the 5 shots was after a bunch of others, Ask him

 

[KinleyWater]

bob_d: Listen to every other person on here first, and to anyone who might chime in on what I offer here - but I think it might be the temp of your barrel interacting with these loads. I would suggest waiting 5 minutes or more between shot and check your groups. I had something similar with a mountain contour barrel that drove me nuts. When I finally got around to shooting it once a day, bringing my target back with me, it was a legit half-inch load that took a week to shoot.

B

Actually, this is a good point. Wish I had thought of it.

 

[TackDriver284]

Just to clarify, are the first two shots going in the same group on both loads and the 3rd and 4th shot going in a different group?

 

[slickrem]

Actually, this is a good point. Wish I had thought of it.

I had a load like that spread out at the last ladder load. Back off a couple of grains. Bottom left start load counter clockwise to finished load.

 

[KinleyWater]

I had a load like that spread out at the last ladder load. Back off a couple of grains. Bottom left start load counter clockwise to finished load.

That's very cool to see all together like that. Fascinating how things happen that you would never imagine just by reading the book.