Minox compact spotter?

[Wapiti Slayer .270]

Well, it's just become an easier decision - the Kowa is now sold out at CL...did someone here buy one?

I think the Vortex is the ticket, though there's a few others I'd like to look through when I get time. A trip to Sportsman's Warehouse in Chattanooga will have to be in the cards sometime soon.

Dub,

Make sure of what you are getting if you go to Sportsmans Warehouse. Don't let them try to sell you a spotter on the premise its an HD model when it is not. According to corporate last fall, they have no intentions of selling HD's but many times their ad says that they are. Just a word of warning as they are the ones that hosed me last fall. Vortex made it right when it wasn't their problem to solve, but still..................

 

[Oldtrader3]

Just remember that no matter how you slice it and ice it with glass (HD or ED) you are still stuck with exit pupil which is what largely determines how much brightness or light that you have which is usable due to the diameter of exit pupil. A 60mm spotter with a 40X eyepiece will always have a 1.5mm exit pupil versus say a 2mm exit pupil with an 80mm scope and a 40mm eyepiece. That translates into 75% more light transmission area for the 80mm scope.

 

[Guest]

I definitely understand the exit pupil piece, Charlie, but thanks for mentioning it. I'm trying to figure out if I need "better" glass, so I think it comes down to when I can get into a store with the models I want to look through and do some looking. There's a Gander Mountain here in town, but their optics selection is dismal, for the most part. In fact, their store is dismal for the most part, and not cheap, either.

Kelly - point taken on Sportsman's. I won't buy optics without knowing the model number I'm buying, for sure. You know I'm all OCD about stuff like that. I just know they stock Vortex, and I'm not sure anywhere else does around here. Tried to look through some scopes at BPS in Montgomery when I was down there recently, but they had only two to look through, and one of them was inoperable (all black view without a lens cap...), so no dice. I don't know why I've suddenly gotten the spotter bug lately. I'm usually a "new rifle" guy, but I'm itching for a spotter for some reason. Don't think I'd use it a ton hunting here, but definitely shooting. Some of my hunting is 1000yd and out glassing on top of my mountain lease, and a spotter would make it easier to chase down things in the grass versus 10x binos and creeping close enough. Maybe I'd get tired of staying in one spot, though? Who knows? I'm going to digest all this and see what I like when I can view through them.

I'd be curious to hear the story about your experience, Kelly. Share it here or via PM or direct me to where it's already shared?

 

[Wapiti Slayer .270]

Actually I had posted it over to Brand X last year. I'll go ahead and relay it here.


Last Sept. Sportsmans Warehouse advertised the Vortex Viper 15-45x-65mm HD spotters for $449. I'd been wanting a Vortex spotter for a while as I've a set of 8x42 Viper Bino's I really, really like. SW was the only one here as well to stock Vortex stuff. Although I did find some at Bass Pro in Denver. Anyways, my wife gave me the money to buy this spotter for our wedding anniversary. I was tickled pink and really really excited. Then one day I get to looking around a different forum, and a guy had posted pics of his Viper HD like mine and I noticed something small and not easily noticed. Right below the Viper logo on the side of the scope, was HD in red. Mine didn't have this.

Being a big OCD myself, I sent a email to Vortex CS. They resonded almost immediately and wanted the S/N and pictures. I sent them and they came back to let me know it was NOT a HD model confirming my fears. I told them what was advertised by SW and even provided a copy of the ad. They asked me to contact SW and keep them informed on what was happening, but they felt it was SW's problem to solve.

So, I immediately called SW's optics counter where I got the scope. Manager wasn't on duty there, but they had me talk to the Hunting Manager. He agreed that it was misleading and that they need to make it right. He said he'd leave a note for the Optics Manager to call when he got in. That evening the Optics Manager called and he too agreed that it was up to them to make it right. He said he had placed a call to his warehouse and corporate to track down an HD model and they'd swap it right out. Said it should only take a few days. Cool. So I waited.

3 days later I call for an update. They are having a hard time finding one in the system. Said they'd contacted all their stores and even Vortex and no one had any. Side note, is that do to the Tsunami in Japan, alot of their products were late. But, they were still working and waiting to hear back from folks to see if one could be found. I sent an email to the Vortex CS I had spoke to originally asking them about the supposed supply shortage. I got an immediate response that no, they had plenty of HD scopes on hand and supply wasn't an issue. I passed that info onto the Optics guy at SW and he said he'd personally call back and see about getting one. Long story short, another 3 weeks go by and still no scope. I called every 3-5 days just to check in, and the last time I called the Optics Manager just decided to wash their hands of it. Said the best he could do is give me my money back. Said he did all he could, and that was that. So I had a choice to make. Keep the scope as it was, or get my money back.

So, once again I sent an email to my Vortex CS contact and just asked her if I kept the scope, could I send it back to them, swap out for an HD model, and pay the difference? She said she'd check as she couldn't believe SW would just wash their hands like that. All they had to do was contact her or Vortex and it would have been no problem shipping the right scope to SW. She didn't think they had ever bothered to actually call. I got an email back about a half hour later saying that since SW won't make it right, and their product is in question, they'd swap our my non HD for an HD model at no cost to me. They'd even overnight mine back once they received my original one. Not to be a pain in the butt, but I asked if I wanted to upgrade to the 20-60x-80mm HD version, could they allow me to pay the difference? Once again, in a half hour got a response from Vortex CS that they'd swap mine for the 20-60x HD if I sent them $75 and they'd still overnight my new one back. Done deal. I wrote a check, boxed up my 15-45 and had my HD spotter back in less than 5 days.

Not once did I get told to get lost. Not once did they treat me badly. They were prompt, courteous, and in my opinion went above and beyond the call of duty for a problem that was never theirs to begin with. They cared, because it was their product in question. I never expected them to step in and was more than willing to pay what it was worth. What can I say, their CS rocks and SW sucks in that department.

After all was said and done, I happened to catch the SW store manager one day and asked him about his Optics Manager's and Corporate's attitude on all this. He said he'd never heard a word about it, and was thoroughly shocked. He gave me a $50 gift card and said he'd take care of the advertising glitch as it was still being advertised as an HD for $449. He also said he'd have a long talk with his Optics guy.

Score one for Vortex and take away 10 for SW............

That's it in a nutshell............

 

[DrMike]

Wow! That is quite a story. It is great to hear of Vortex's response to the situation, however. It gives a lot of credence to their policy of "no questions asked" exchange for warranty (here in Canada).

 

[Wapiti Slayer .270]

Wow! That is quite a story. It is great to hear of Vortex's response to the situation, however. It gives a lot of credence to their policy of "no questions asked" exchange for warranty (here in Canada).

Mike,

Yes, yes it does. When one reads this story, and then takes a look again at their VIP Warranty, a guy should feel very comfy in their products and CS.

VIP Warranty

Our warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale.

The VIP stands for a Very Important Promise to you, our customers. We will repair or replace your Vortex product in the event it becomes damaged or defective—at no charge to you. It doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it. You can count on the VIP Warranty for all riflescopes, binoculars, spotting scopes and monoculars.

Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to

If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you.

Note
The VIP warranty does not cover loss, theft or deliberate damage to the product.

And Dub, the Vortex Spotters come with a really nice neoprene cover. The obj. and eye piece caps are really easy to move. The only thing I don't like about having the cover on, is its hard to use the built in sunshade do to the tight fit of the cover.

Not a great picture, but you can see the sunshade out, and the cover off from earlier this year.

Oh, and picked up this handy item. It will allow me to digiscope with both the DSLR and Point and Shoot. Cost $38.....

 

[Guest]

Wow. Wow. I can't imagine why folks in retail behave that way. I know people in retail who break their necks for their customers. Wow.

Great story about a great company (Vortex) who clearly care about their customers. I think you've just pushed me over the edge on what brand to check out first, Kelly. I'll be tracking down some relatively local retailers to see what I like and don't like. Thanks!

 

[Wapiti Slayer .270]

Wow. Wow. I can't imagine why folks in retail behave that way. I know people in retail who break their necks for their customers. Wow.

Great story about a great company (Vortex) who clearly care about their customers. I think you've just pushed me over the edge on what brand to check out first, Kelly. I'll be tracking down some relatively local retailers to see what I like and don't like. Thanks!

You are most welcome for the story and cautionary tale. I agree, was a bit surprising. I do have lots of loyalty to Vortex now though.

BTW, if you go out to look, at least take the time to look at the Razor HD's. $1600 but if you compare them to the big 3 like Swaro and Zeiss, they should at least impress at how close they get versus cost. You never know, you may just want to save the additional few hundred, or buy a Swaro instead. lol

I added a few pics to my previous post. Maybe they will be useful.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Kelly, I am glad that Vortex stood by their merchandise and made the situation right for you eventually. I have heard from others that they have good customer service.

On the other hand, Sportmen's Warehouse in Washington went out of business! They failed here for some of the same reasons that you ran into, their poor service. Mostly, it was a personel issue here it with management issues and dishonesty and not standing behind their word. There was a serious problem here with having no sale merchandise in stock, ever. Plus, Sportsmen's Warehouse was always short on working capital (they are taking too much money out of the business) to where they never had sufficient inventory, would promise things on a date and never deliver. They also gave people hassle on returns and lied. Both stores in Northern Washington just closed with no notice. The newspapers here were not kind to them and their store policies, basically saying good riddance!

Sportsman's Warehouse started in Murray Utah while I was working in Salt Lake back in the 1980's. They were the first decent sporting goods chain in that region besides United (LOL). They did pretty well but I think that they expanded before they had the working capital to do so. This happens when managers try to grow faster than they can grow working capital. Plus hiring and training decent store managers is another challenge which they fell down on locally.

Cabela's just did something similar in 2010-11, they put all their working capital into growing their bank (credit card business) to the extent of $150,000,000 and had no inventory for over a year. Plus, they opened too many new stores and were not able to manage and stock them well enough. Everytime I ordered something they put me on backorder. Cabela's is no longer run by the family and the CEO is Tommy Whats-his-face who ruined Remington and destroyed Marlin is now in charge!

 

[SJB358]

Kelly, that scope looks great. I like this Swaro, but I would be perfectly happy with yours as well.

Dub, once you get a good scope, you will find a reason to always have it with you, unless you are bowhunting or something really close, but having the ability to observe without killing your eyes is priceless. It has taken me a bit to learn, but it was a great lesson.

 

[Guest]

Scotty, I believe you're right. I've resigned myself to getting a spotter, I'm just not sure which one is a "good scope" for my use. That's the kicker for me. I hate to spend money twice, and yet I live on a budget (don't we all...) so I have to compromise somewhere along the line. I may have found my solution in the Vortex, and I'm also looking at a Pentax setup, as it comes highly recommended from someone I trust, as well. Those two are in the lead right now, and it will come down to looking through them and which one I can get for the best price if they are comparable glass. We'll see how it works out.

 

[SJB358]

Dub, I know you are looking at the Vortex now, but what about Minox's full sized model? Looks like a good scope and their optics are excellent as you know. Just wondering as they are in the same price range as Vortex as well. They have a 20x45 too. Just wondering.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62211

Plus, the 20x45 eyepiece is on sale right now at CL.

 

[hunttheus]

Minox make great equipment, at a reasonable price One does not need to spend the kind of money that it costs to get a spotter with some european name on it, in order to have a spotter that will do the job for you.

 

[SJB358]

Minox make great equipment, at a reasonable price One does not need to spend the kind of money that it costs to get a spotter with some european name on it, in order to have a spotter that will do the job for you.

Do you have one of the Minox spotters. There are a few of us looking at them right now. A product review on yours would be pretty cool. I think yours would be the first. I have a couple of their scopes and love them, so I can't imagine they are anything less than good as well.

 

[Wapiti Slayer .270]

Minox make great equipment, at a reasonable price One does not need to spend the kind of money that it costs to get a spotter with some european name on it, in order to have a spotter that will do the job for you.

Your name wouldn't happen to be Jim Dicken would it?

 

[hunttheus]

Minox make great equipment, at a reasonable price One does not need to spend the kind of money that it costs to get a spotter with some european name on it, in order to have a spotter that will do the job for you.

Your name wouldn't happen to be Jim Dicken would it?

Nope, but if he believes that you dont need a custom built gun with european glass on it and hunts in the United States, and his posts relate to hunting in the Unites States then I like him already.

 

[Wapiti Slayer .270]

Big difference between need and want. If a man/woman wants to buy a certain product, its really no one's business but theirs.

Personally I think you might be here to grind an axe, but whatever floats your boat..............

 

[SJB358]

If a man/woman wants to buy a certain product, its really no one's business but theirs.

Yeah, there is no stigma with anybody using European glass here or hunting anywhere in the world. I hope you aren't here for axe grinding. We don't do it around this place. It isn't what Nosler is about at all. We are a group of hunters, shooters and handloaders who like to assist one another.

 

[Oldtrader3]

This person may not also understand that Minox has been a West German Optics Company since the 1950's. So I am not sure what he thinks this is about?

 

[Guest]

Maybe I'm just assuming the best, but I didn't take hunt's post as argumentative. I took him to say what I've long said, and what others here say frequently - buy the best glass you can afford, but know that if you can't afford Swaro/Zeiss, there are still good, serviceable options out there. Now, if he proves me otherwise, then so be it. But the sentiment I took from his post is true, whether that was his meaning or not.

Hunt, if you are here to grind an axe, I'll advise you it isn't tolerated well, and the mods will remove your ability to grind quickly. We all play nice here. If you've got good intentions, welcome. If not, I'll suggest you get an account at 24hr or one of the other flame-fests and don't waste your time or ours here.

I've actually narrowed down to two scopes what I'm going to look at. I've really been impressed with Pentax optics over the years, starting with a 35mm SLR my Dad owned (that I still have here in my office) that was every bit as good as other brands yet cost half to two-thirds the price. I'm looking at the Pentax PF65 ED II body, with any of several eyepieces. The reviews are stellar on this scope (and the 80mm Pentax ED, too) and the scope itself is just about the perfect size for packing and hunting use. I can actually get the scope and a good (not great, but good) eyepiece for a great price - less even than the ED Vortex. The best news is, the Pentax uses standard 1.25" astronomical eyepieces, and while some of them are astronomical in price, many are not, and I can try a few over the coming years for $50-100 apiece, selling off the ones I don't like to recoup about 80-90% of my investment. The Vortex HD is still in the running, and it's going to come down to which one fits my eye best. I'll be getting something in the 65mm objective size class, but I think it will serve my needs well. I will update this thread as I get a chance to look through the scopes (and any others I happen to get to look through in the meantime).