lefty315
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2004
- 912
- 350
rodell said:
No such thing as too many options....think of it as too little time to explore all your options :grin:
Modern rifles, tool vs. soul
- Thread starter Polaris
- Start date
No such thing as too many options....think of it as too little time to explore all your options :grin:
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 36,924
- 5,115
lefty315":fo9hjxy8 said:
Good insight, Lefty!
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,330
- 594
seems I only buy them so I can rebuild them, mostly wood stocks, am gonna try a chassis on my next build.
RR
RR
Cool topic. It’s funny where we all draw our line in the sand. I like the P64 Winchester but mine pretty much all wear McMillan stocks. They started with wood stocks, but soon after they were soaked until they turned white in the late Fall Idaho rain or frozen stiff in Oregon in the 2nd season. They got dented and scratched pretty badly as I moved through creek/rock crossings trying to catch up with Elk. Even the fiberglass stocks get beat up pretty badly. My Mashburn looks 10 years older today than it did before 15 Oct. I ran it into and out of 4-5 drainages before I traded up for the 338.... it’s got character now for sure.
My 338 is on its 4th stock now and I think this one will stay. Fits well, and seems to work for me. I like wood and have a few of them but as of today, I can’t stake my vacation time on any of my wood stocks to make an airline flight, road trip, hunt in snow/rain, etc for a week and keep their promise of remaining perfectly zeroed for the one chance I may get. I have always thought that a wood stocked rifle could be brought for those Bluebird days but some of the time the days don’t end like they’ve began.
Cool topic.
My 338 is on its 4th stock now and I think this one will stay. Fits well, and seems to work for me. I like wood and have a few of them but as of today, I can’t stake my vacation time on any of my wood stocks to make an airline flight, road trip, hunt in snow/rain, etc for a week and keep their promise of remaining perfectly zeroed for the one chance I may get. I have always thought that a wood stocked rifle could be brought for those Bluebird days but some of the time the days don’t end like they’ve began.
Cool topic.
walkinhorseman
Beginner
- Sep 28, 2010
- 140
- 87
I can’t begin to say how much this topic strikes a sensitive chord in me. This concept creates conflict every time hunting season arrives and I go to the cabinet to prepare rifles. The Hunter and Rifleman in me wants to grab the synthetic stocked, stainless barreled, performance rifles. The Purist in me draws me to walnut and blued steel. I keep both in the cabinet and prepare both for the season. Mother Nature usually dictates what is carried on any given day afield. Similarly, do I take the Benelli or Citori 16 gauge Sporter to hunt over my Shorthair? My thoughts on this topic can’t be expressed in a single Forum post. I appreciate both types of rifles or shotguns. What I do like about this Forum is that there is an understanding and appreciation of what a Classic Hunting Rifle is. Properly configured, stainless and synthetic can approach a classic handmade rifle in form and function. However, they will never quite make the transition to the character of fine walnut and rust blue.
What I will tell you is that you will never find me in the woods with a Modern Sporting Rifle. Although I do own an AR, I feel that they do not belong in the game fields. Similarly, the RPR’s, Ruger American, and Savage Axis are not in my wheelhouse. Not to be a complete hypocrite, my competition rifle is built on an Eliseo R1 Chassis. That rifle has a purpose that does not extend to the field.
It pleases me that Nosler has offered the 48 rifle in various models. The Heritage takes us back to the nostalgic days of finer rifles like the Pre-64 Model 70, or Pre-Garcia Sako. Yet, we have the choice to select the function of the Outfitter or Patriot. It’s not an easy choice for me which style to purchase or that I would carry into the field.
My first deer rifle was a Sako L-579 Deluxe 243 Win. I hunted with that rifle for quite a while. Hunting with that rifle was always tough for me as I found that my focus was distracted from the hunt by protecting the rifle from nicks and dings. Eventually I had the cash to add a Sako Old Standard Grade L-579 to the cabinet that became my “beater”. Pennsylvania still had snow for deer season then but as the climate morphed, deer season gave way to 40 degrees and rain. As soon as fiberglass stocks came on the scene, I had one. At the time there were no factory offerings in any stock material but wood. That first fiberglass rifle was a 308 Win 700 Remington in a Brown Precision Remington ADL pattern stock built by Fred Sinclair, when he was building state of the art benchrest rifles. That rifle was sold to a colleague and was eventually replaced by a Sako A-series Hunter 7-08 that made its’ way into a McMillan stock. I always had some pet wood stocked rifle in deer camp as a backup but seldom did they get carried into the woods. The more utilitarian rifle freed my mind to focus on the hunt. Given a ridiculous income and unlimited budget, I would probably have a cabinet full of rifles by American Custom Gun Guild members. Even if that fantasy were a reality, I seriously doubt that I could bring myself drag an art form in wood and metal through the mud, the blood and the brush. Imagine the anguish of falling on a rock slide with a pre-64 Model 88 Winchester in your hand to break the fall. I’d rather have a tool in the hand to hunt with. I’ll save the wood for a casual stroll during a sunny day.
What I will tell you is that you will never find me in the woods with a Modern Sporting Rifle. Although I do own an AR, I feel that they do not belong in the game fields. Similarly, the RPR’s, Ruger American, and Savage Axis are not in my wheelhouse. Not to be a complete hypocrite, my competition rifle is built on an Eliseo R1 Chassis. That rifle has a purpose that does not extend to the field.
It pleases me that Nosler has offered the 48 rifle in various models. The Heritage takes us back to the nostalgic days of finer rifles like the Pre-64 Model 70, or Pre-Garcia Sako. Yet, we have the choice to select the function of the Outfitter or Patriot. It’s not an easy choice for me which style to purchase or that I would carry into the field.
My first deer rifle was a Sako L-579 Deluxe 243 Win. I hunted with that rifle for quite a while. Hunting with that rifle was always tough for me as I found that my focus was distracted from the hunt by protecting the rifle from nicks and dings. Eventually I had the cash to add a Sako Old Standard Grade L-579 to the cabinet that became my “beater”. Pennsylvania still had snow for deer season then but as the climate morphed, deer season gave way to 40 degrees and rain. As soon as fiberglass stocks came on the scene, I had one. At the time there were no factory offerings in any stock material but wood. That first fiberglass rifle was a 308 Win 700 Remington in a Brown Precision Remington ADL pattern stock built by Fred Sinclair, when he was building state of the art benchrest rifles. That rifle was sold to a colleague and was eventually replaced by a Sako A-series Hunter 7-08 that made its’ way into a McMillan stock. I always had some pet wood stocked rifle in deer camp as a backup but seldom did they get carried into the woods. The more utilitarian rifle freed my mind to focus on the hunt. Given a ridiculous income and unlimited budget, I would probably have a cabinet full of rifles by American Custom Gun Guild members. Even if that fantasy were a reality, I seriously doubt that I could bring myself drag an art form in wood and metal through the mud, the blood and the brush. Imagine the anguish of falling on a rock slide with a pre-64 Model 88 Winchester in your hand to break the fall. I’d rather have a tool in the hand to hunt with. I’ll save the wood for a casual stroll during a sunny day.
salmonchaser
Handloader
- Dec 13, 2013
- 4,610
- 3,825
This was distracting. I'm finally moving into my house up on Mt. Emily, I should be painting. I still search for #1s with great wood, my 375 will go Elk Hunting and perhaps fill my tag in a few days.
Like Bill and Scotty's rifles my workhorse 338 Jarrett now wears a custom laminated synthetic stock. Today we will see 35 or 40 degree temperature swings, snow likely by next week. I like not having to worry about the rifle but good wood inspires me. Thankfully I get my fix guiding pheasant hunters. Some of those guys show up with some exceptional wood.
Life is to short to hunt with an ugly dog, ugly rifle or ornery woman. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just ask anyone with a German Whirehair; except Clark.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Like Bill and Scotty's rifles my workhorse 338 Jarrett now wears a custom laminated synthetic stock. Today we will see 35 or 40 degree temperature swings, snow likely by next week. I like not having to worry about the rifle but good wood inspires me. Thankfully I get my fix guiding pheasant hunters. Some of those guys show up with some exceptional wood.
Life is to short to hunt with an ugly dog, ugly rifle or ornery woman. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just ask anyone with a German Whirehair; except Clark.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A
Anonymous
Guest
Europe":1bbporck said:
I like my hunting pieces to be the synthetic and plastic stocked variety. I'm usually am out for a week or two at a time and just prefer not to have to worry about it. My hunting season through the year usually runs 80 or so days. Some of it in gorgeous weather....but a lot of it is cold, wet, etc. On a rifle, much of my hunting is in mountainous terrain- and broken shale is pure murder on a nice piece of walnut.
On my shotgun- I'm rougher on those than a rifle! I can't imagine dragging a nice stock into a duck marsh or packing it with slugs while fishing.
As much as I love beautiful wood and polished blue...I've got a pragmatic streak miles wide. I will take out my M12 or my M37 for an afternoon if the sky is clear. But that's about it.
April, I don’t hunt more than two weeks anyplace really but it isn’t really cold that really affects wood. It’s more of a moisture thing. When you get rained, snowed and generally soaked while spiked out you can’t really do anything with your rifle. Doesn’t matter if you’re there for 3 days or 20, you’re still screwed. I think extremely dense and well sealed wood would keep that problem at bay, but honestly I don’t have the money for that sorta wood that I would consider trouble free.
Europe":215h53ww said:
Our rifle season for bear and deer is fairly short. Weather can be very cold at times but generally is normal temps for that time of the yr. I always check zero on any wooden rifle I'm using just prior to the start of season, but would do that even with a synthetic. I hunt cold weather and all day rains....I can't think of any deer I ever missed that I even gave a thought towards blaming on a wooden stock. The misses I've had over the yrs I might miss again if I had 10 more chances. Tough and quick shots sometimes result in a miss.
I can see the big advantage with synthetics for dedicated long range shooting and hunting. But I contend that the vast majority of game killed by the average hunter all over the country is killed under 250 yds. At those ranges it would take extremes in weather that I've never witnessed or ran into, in order to blame a miss on a wooden stock. I've just never seen any kinds of huge swings in accuracy at those ranges regardless of conditions. I can walk in the rain all day 1 day and take a tough shot the next day with 100% confidence in the rifle. I never give it a thought.
Also I have a gun that for several yrs had a white looking glazed area on the stock from sitting in an all day rain holding it with wet gloves. When I finally got around to it, 5 minutes with some wool wax oil and extra fine steel wool has it looking like it's spent its life in a gun cabinet.
salmonchaser
Handloader
- Dec 13, 2013
- 4,610
- 3,825
April, right now the first elk season is underway. Below freezing at 3500 feet at dawn, 60 by noon. Next week I heard snow and rain in the forecast. Quite routine to hunt into the canyon, getting below snow line, hunt back up to find it well below freezing.
It is rare to have temps much below freezing in northeast Oregon in early November if it's snowing. If seen below zero with clear weather, particularly over 5500 feet.
The coldest if ever hunted in the lower 48 has been between 5 and 8 below. Last winter we had those temps for about two weeks while pheasant hunting.
My work shotguns are synthetic, particularly when working or training dogs. I do own a couple of nicely stocked side by sides, good weather and dogs that have been worked hard a couple of days prior. Lazy stroll kind of thing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is rare to have temps much below freezing in northeast Oregon in early November if it's snowing. If seen below zero with clear weather, particularly over 5500 feet.
The coldest if ever hunted in the lower 48 has been between 5 and 8 below. Last winter we had those temps for about two weeks while pheasant hunting.
My work shotguns are synthetic, particularly when working or training dogs. I do own a couple of nicely stocked side by sides, good weather and dogs that have been worked hard a couple of days prior. Lazy stroll kind of thing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darkhorse
Handloader
- Mar 14, 2014
- 800
- 150
I love a fine handmade rifle. I built these two some years ago, one is a .40 cal., the other is a .54. I actually deer hunt more with the .54 nowadays than with any of my centerfires. I am also fond of my old M700 BDL as it was my first LH bolt gun and it is my last wooden stocked centerfire, the rest being stainless and synthetic.
The older I get the more I enjoy just being in the woods with a flintlock rifle. That's about as pure as it gets.
The older I get the more I enjoy just being in the woods with a flintlock rifle. That's about as pure as it gets.
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DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 36,924
- 5,115
Pure, and pleasing to the eye, as well.
Darkhorse is my new favorite member lol Darkhorse, very very nice
God I feel old!!!!!!
I thank each of you gentlemen for taking the time to answer my questions, it certainly does make sense and again thank you for taking the time to respond.
Scotty since I have been unsuccessful in getting her to post I have ask Cheyenne to pm you, as she has and does have issues with wood stocks in sub zero weather. I am sure it is the moisture AND the cold but she in the past has told me that she has had wood stocks break or split out on the ice. She has also mentioned something about sanding them down, putting something on them and then re varnishing them, but my memory fails me and she has not answered my communique's.
however, in all fairness to everybody responding on this thread, I am sure very few are in 20 and 30 degrees below zero for extended periods of time, so I am not sure what she does or doesn't do is even relevant to the rest of us.
Again thanks guys, good information and if I was still buying rifles maybe I would try one of those synthetic stocks--who knows I might like it. I definitely do not have a closed mind, but always preferred wood and blue, like I said I am the past and you fellows are the present and that is the way it is suppose to be
p.s. TOM if you see this and have time post up a picture of that custom muzzleloader of yours, it is a very pretty long gun
God I feel old!!!!!!
I thank each of you gentlemen for taking the time to answer my questions, it certainly does make sense and again thank you for taking the time to respond.
Scotty since I have been unsuccessful in getting her to post I have ask Cheyenne to pm you, as she has and does have issues with wood stocks in sub zero weather. I am sure it is the moisture AND the cold but she in the past has told me that she has had wood stocks break or split out on the ice. She has also mentioned something about sanding them down, putting something on them and then re varnishing them, but my memory fails me and she has not answered my communique's.
however, in all fairness to everybody responding on this thread, I am sure very few are in 20 and 30 degrees below zero for extended periods of time, so I am not sure what she does or doesn't do is even relevant to the rest of us.
Again thanks guys, good information and if I was still buying rifles maybe I would try one of those synthetic stocks--who knows I might like it. I definitely do not have a closed mind, but always preferred wood and blue, like I said I am the past and you fellows are the present and that is the way it is suppose to be
p.s. TOM if you see this and have time post up a picture of that custom muzzleloader of yours, it is a very pretty long gun
Darkhorse
Handloader
- Mar 14, 2014
- 800
- 150
Shadetree, You can check out some of my targets I have posted in the Muzzleloading section to see just how accurate these rifles can be.
Europe, Thanks for making me your new favorite member. I remember when there were no synthetic stocks, just wood. And I'm old enough to have had a few. The bad thing about wood is it warps. Sometimes drastically. My M700 BDL rested in the gun safe for 10 to 15 years while I shot other rifles. When I finally did take it out to shoot it the forend had warped so bad it actually had wore blueing off the barrel just sitting there. I did a complete bedding job and made it especially deep ahead of the recoil lug, so far it hasn't warped anymore.
At a late season Elk hunt in northern New mexico I did gun maintenance while my tent mates sat there and told me the benefits of stainless steel and synthetic stocks.
While at heart I am a true traditionalist I am also a realist. So now when I go on a big hunt with possible long shots I take my Stainless synthetic .300 Win. Mag.
When I deer hunt at home and feel the need or desire for a scoped rifle I take my Tikka stainless synthetic in .308. I am first a rifleman and find I can also take pleasure in my SS rifles along with the flintlocks, especially if it's raining.
My main shotgun now is a Browning Maxus in Mossy Oak camo and synthetic stock. A true multi purpose gun. I've waded through beaver ponds with a Browning O/U but those days are over.
It is what it is. I just choose the most appropriate tool for the job at hand and go with it.
Europe, Thanks for making me your new favorite member. I remember when there were no synthetic stocks, just wood. And I'm old enough to have had a few. The bad thing about wood is it warps. Sometimes drastically. My M700 BDL rested in the gun safe for 10 to 15 years while I shot other rifles. When I finally did take it out to shoot it the forend had warped so bad it actually had wore blueing off the barrel just sitting there. I did a complete bedding job and made it especially deep ahead of the recoil lug, so far it hasn't warped anymore.
At a late season Elk hunt in northern New mexico I did gun maintenance while my tent mates sat there and told me the benefits of stainless steel and synthetic stocks.
While at heart I am a true traditionalist I am also a realist. So now when I go on a big hunt with possible long shots I take my Stainless synthetic .300 Win. Mag.
When I deer hunt at home and feel the need or desire for a scoped rifle I take my Tikka stainless synthetic in .308. I am first a rifleman and find I can also take pleasure in my SS rifles along with the flintlocks, especially if it's raining.
My main shotgun now is a Browning Maxus in Mossy Oak camo and synthetic stock. A true multi purpose gun. I've waded through beaver ponds with a Browning O/U but those days are over.
It is what it is. I just choose the most appropriate tool for the job at hand and go with it.
- Thread starter
- #40
I've been out of comms for a few days. Figured I should reply to my own post. Europe brings up an interesting point about mixed bag rifles and extreme condition reliability.
I do own 2 synthetic stocked long arms. One is a Stoeger 12 guage that I use exclusively for waterfowling. I hunt like to hunt small water marshes and late season big-water in extremely nasty conditions here in Minnesota and North Dakota, camouflage is paramount, and I've found this model to be bulletproof reliable and a fair shooter. I grudgingly put away my Ithaca M37 in favor of this arm, however the Ithaca does still come out occasionally for some upland, shore based shooting on wood ducks. The other is a Match grade AR-15 that occasionally goes coyote hunting with me. It is a target shooting tool, sometimes pressed into service for coyote shooting due to it's caliber, accuracy potential at range, and my extreme familiarity with this rifle.
My wood stocked rifles do see service in very cold and snowy or wet weather, sometimes sub-zero. Both that I regularly hunt with are converted military actions, designed for extreme conditions. Both are tested in said conditions. Both are glass bedded, they do not shift zero with temperature or moisture. Both are oil finished, and bear many guilt free scratches, gouges and dents from many, many hunts. If they ever get too ugly to stand, I'll spend some time sanding and refinishing I guess.
I do own 2 synthetic stocked long arms. One is a Stoeger 12 guage that I use exclusively for waterfowling. I hunt like to hunt small water marshes and late season big-water in extremely nasty conditions here in Minnesota and North Dakota, camouflage is paramount, and I've found this model to be bulletproof reliable and a fair shooter. I grudgingly put away my Ithaca M37 in favor of this arm, however the Ithaca does still come out occasionally for some upland, shore based shooting on wood ducks. The other is a Match grade AR-15 that occasionally goes coyote hunting with me. It is a target shooting tool, sometimes pressed into service for coyote shooting due to it's caliber, accuracy potential at range, and my extreme familiarity with this rifle.
My wood stocked rifles do see service in very cold and snowy or wet weather, sometimes sub-zero. Both that I regularly hunt with are converted military actions, designed for extreme conditions. Both are tested in said conditions. Both are glass bedded, they do not shift zero with temperature or moisture. Both are oil finished, and bear many guilt free scratches, gouges and dents from many, many hunts. If they ever get too ugly to stand, I'll spend some time sanding and refinishing I guess.
