Mosin Nagant
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Anonymous
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I've got to agree with your there...I get that some of the Finnish ones are wartime Sakos but all of them I've seen were Soviet made with virtually no redeeming qualities IMHO. Pretty clunky design and most of them I've seen could best be described as "fencepost grade"
At $79.99 back in the day, they were maybe a decent budget deer gun. At the current price- $300ish...yeah, no way when a Ruger American or Savage Axis is out there for the same $$$.
At $79.99 back in the day, they were maybe a decent budget deer gun. At the current price- $300ish...yeah, no way when a Ruger American or Savage Axis is out there for the same $$$.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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- 6,290
I have never been tempted to buy a Mosin Nagant. They were/are readily available for sale, but they don't tempt me. People that buy them seem to be focused on the fact that they are cheap.
They are/were cheap, really cheap, and so was the ammunition. In a country where one can go out and blast away at cinder blocks and garbage in a rural gravel pit, that was an attractive combination.
They aren't pretty or refined, but they are a very durable and surprisingly accurate rifle. Run handloads through them with the proper bullet diameter, and they will shoot as well as any Enfield or Mauser with the possible exception of the Swedish rifles, those are a different animal. They also have some very interesting history behind them and several variations and manufacturers giving them some appeal as collectables at a reasonable price.
They aren't pretty or refined, but they are a very durable and surprisingly accurate rifle. Run handloads through them with the proper bullet diameter, and they will shoot as well as any Enfield or Mauser with the possible exception of the Swedish rifles, those are a different animal. They also have some very interesting history behind them and several variations and manufacturers giving them some appeal as collectables at a reasonable price.
Thankful Otter
Handloader
- Oct 8, 2012
- 783
- 97
I am with you, Dr Mike, Hodgeman, April. Some tried to get me to buy one as they said it would be the easiest rifle to field clean that I would ever own and would also be the best extreme element rifle I would ever own. I dont know if that is true or not as I never got one. We do have extreme element concerns and the rifle stays in a sleeve until it is ready to be used and I have had a few instance;s where the extreme elements did create a problem and that is another reason we always carry two rifles, but neither of them are Mosin Nagant
Dr Mike, who manufactured the original Ross caliber rifle ?
Polaris, were they not manufactured in several different countries and is the ones manufactured in a particular country better than the others ?
Dr Mike, who manufactured the original Ross caliber rifle ?
Polaris, were they not manufactured in several different countries and is the ones manufactured in a particular country better than the others ?
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,420
- 6,290
To my knowledge, the Ross rifle was manufactured only in Canada. In addition to being issued to the Canadian Expeditionary Force, the rifle was used for training purposes by some British forces and some American forces. The British Royal Navy issued Ross rifles in order to free up Lee-Enfields for use at the front and the rifle was used by some British snipers because of its recognised potential for accuracy out to 600 yards. It is reported that the Latvian Army was issued MkIIIB Ross rifles during the Latvian War of Independence. Still a sweet round and an interesting rifle.
Yes Otter, they were mostly manufactured in Russia. Originally at the Sestroroyetsk, Tula and Izshevk arsenals. Chattleraunt in France also manufactured them for Imperial Russia. During WWI, They were manufactured in America by Remington and New England Westinghouse. (Winchester also manufactured the 95 lever action in the Russian service caliber, these are prized collectables). In the chaos following WWI, Finland became independent of Russia, and standardized the Mosin Nagant as their service arm. They originally fielded the Russian M91 and variants, then began to rebuild Russian (now Soviet) rifles to their specs using the Russian and Soviet receivers (parts interchangeability in the Mosin Nagant is unmatched). Some modifications they introduced were an improved trigger, magazine spring, sights, and barrels of very high quality initially from Sig and Steyr, later domestically produced by Sako and Tikka. The rifles were also very carefully assembled by skilled gunsmiths including shimming and bedding of handguards and barrel shanks, and tuning of the triggers. The ones that tested the most accurate were issued to the best marksman and used with devastating effect in the Winter War and Continuation war when Finland was invaded by Russia. The Finnish built rifles are widely regarded as the best, with the M28 and M28/30 models being the most prized. Mosins were also made in Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, China, and Albania. Possibly a couple more nations, those are the ones that come to mind. No, they are not what you'd want to carry on a moose hunt, but they are a fascinating and affordable military collectable and they are fun to shoot for informal target practice.
I should add, that I still compete with a Mosin Nagant model PU 91/30 in vintage sniper competition to 600 yards. The rifle itself will run with the Springfield and Swedish mauser rifles I'm competing against. I have cleaned both the MR63 (300 yard) and 600 yard HP target with it. I have yet to clean either of those targets in competition with a Rock River National Match AR and modern optics. The round's ballistics are close kin to 7.62 NATO. The only issues I've had are with the optic and mounting system. Both were made in the early '50s with 1942 technology, so there are some peculiarities to deal with. The rifle will shoot though.
cloverleaf
Handloader
- Sep 10, 2006
- 4,401
- 1,066
Polaris- learned some things- thanks. Guess its like anything else, if done well they will shoot well. In general, my interest was because they were cheap. Fortunately I delayed long enough that savage started building the model 200 almost as cheap (buy the time I'd have found a mounting system for an optic for the nagant). Those sardine cans full of cheap ammo and the allure of a $50 rifle almost had me though. Fortunately the Stevens shot sub one inch groups with Winchester silver box 7mm08. Unfortunately, I had a stupid moment and sold that too. CL
rjm158
Handloader
- Oct 15, 2009
- 709
- 648
I own two of the 91/30's and two M44's. I am a huge military history freak, primarily WWII, and have collected rifles from the combatant countries. I have also reloaded the 7.62x54 with no difficulty.
One of the 91/30's I had drilled and tapped for a scope in 1998 when "Enemy at the Gates" premiered as well as a Czech Model 48 8mm to have guns I could play with that would emulate those used in the movie although not intended to be historically identical. I bought one of the M44's at a local pawn shop for $50 in a Ramline stock with the intent to make it a truck gun. The previous owner had removed the rear sight and bayonet but I already owned a B-Square scout mount for a Mosin and installed it and a Tasco 2.5x pistol scope I had lying around. I loaded Sierra 125 and 150gr .308 bullets and found it would consistently shoot 1.25-1.5 inch groups at a 100. It's not gonna win Camp Perry but plenty accurate for it's intended purpose.
The other 91/30 (my first) is dated 1941, the year Germany invaded Russia. When I got it, I took it entirely apart to clean it and found some weed seeds and pieces of stem in the magazine. While there had obviously been ample time and opportunity for it to get there for various reasons, this and the date made me wonder if it had seen action in the war. Like many military rifles, there are numerous dings and nicks in the stock as well.
As an aside I also own a Tokarev SVT-40 that is a very good shooting rifle in it own right.
Ron
One of the 91/30's I had drilled and tapped for a scope in 1998 when "Enemy at the Gates" premiered as well as a Czech Model 48 8mm to have guns I could play with that would emulate those used in the movie although not intended to be historically identical. I bought one of the M44's at a local pawn shop for $50 in a Ramline stock with the intent to make it a truck gun. The previous owner had removed the rear sight and bayonet but I already owned a B-Square scout mount for a Mosin and installed it and a Tasco 2.5x pistol scope I had lying around. I loaded Sierra 125 and 150gr .308 bullets and found it would consistently shoot 1.25-1.5 inch groups at a 100. It's not gonna win Camp Perry but plenty accurate for it's intended purpose.
The other 91/30 (my first) is dated 1941, the year Germany invaded Russia. When I got it, I took it entirely apart to clean it and found some weed seeds and pieces of stem in the magazine. While there had obviously been ample time and opportunity for it to get there for various reasons, this and the date made me wonder if it had seen action in the war. Like many military rifles, there are numerous dings and nicks in the stock as well.
As an aside I also own a Tokarev SVT-40 that is a very good shooting rifle in it own right.
Ron
- Thread starter
- #11
polaris and tjm158
good information and your posts prove that it is important to have blonds, redheads, and brunette, women available to mankind as every man has different tastes and sees things in a different light.
unfortunately for me my hair has turned gray.
Seriously great info gents, thank you
good information and your posts prove that it is important to have blonds, redheads, and brunette, women available to mankind as every man has different tastes and sees things in a different light.
unfortunately for me my hair has turned gray.
Seriously great info gents, thank you
I've moved on into higher end military rifles in my collecting, namely Swiss and Swedish rifles, but I still own and shoot several Mosins. I have one Finn M39 that lives up to the reputation for accuracy. This one most certainly saw military use based on the wear and tear it shows. I did have a Finn M28 that was the only known example from the Finnish Civil Guard unit it was issued to. This unit was nearly wiped out in the early days of the Soviet invasion after inflicting heavy casualties and critically delaying the Soviet advance. They are lauded as heroes in Finland, akin to our troops at Bastogne. The rifle now sits in a Finnish museum after a Finnish historian got wind of it's existence and talked me out of it so he could repatriate the rifle. I own several Soviet 91/30s as a local retailer used to get in crates of them at a time. The gun guy there had me on speed dial, and would let me know when a fresh shipment came in and let me look for "interesting" ones. I own a couple of rarities, and some really clean and matching pre-war rifles that most certainly did not see front line duty. I also have an M44 carbine as a camp rifle. It's fitted with a "mojo" sight, a ghost ring style that is very nice if I'm out clunking around in the woods and something needs ventilating. It's very accurate with the H 174 rn and with this bullet would be suitable for game up to moose. I've had it on snowmobile trips where it became literally caked in snow and ice when the tow sleigh capsized. Out of curiosity, I cleared the bore and fired a full magazine into a rock face at 500ish yards. It worked flawlessly and held zero.
