My First and a Lesson or Two

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,811
353
KinleyWater":2r4h52ra said:
Everyone - Thank you. This really is a great forum.

On hand, I have 180 and 250 HotCor, 200 InterLock (What I'm trying to get away from) and 200 FTX, 225 Sierra GK, and some original Barnes X, I think in 200 and 225, though I'd have to check.

I have zero, none, zip, zilch, nada experience with the Barnes and whenever I think about loading them, I pause at the exceptionally small size of the aperture at the tip.

So, from what I am reading, I think I will work up a fairly stiff load for the 250 HotCors, unless I can find some AB or PT at a price I'm willing to pay (glaring at you Midway).

CL - you can say that again.

Again, thanks all.


I can say I have some experience with the TSX bullet in the .35 Whelen. Six elk so far all for all practical purposes one shot kills or stops. The stop were hit so hard they were unable to get up to try and get away. None moved in any direction except straight down. The load was 60.4 gr. Re15, Remington brass, Winchester WLR primer and the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. Start lower because while this load is safe in my custom Mauser, it proved to be way too hot for my Remington M700 Classic. Velocity was 2710 FPS with most shots making half inch groups from the Mauser. No apparent pressure signs in the Mauser but very stiff bolt lift from the Remington. Results were so satisfactory that I really never looked to try any other load combos in that rifle. Maybe I'll try Accubonds or Partitions in the Remington one of these days. I did get some decent results with the 250 gr. Speer Hot Cores in the Mauser, Remington 700 and a Ruger M77RS I have using H335. The Hornady SP and RN also shot well in all three rifles.
Dunno if Speer is still making a 250 gr. Grand Slam bullet but it is conspicuously missing in the Speer manual #15 Methinks it has been dropped. The last manual they show it was #13. I guess it's long gone. I have a friend in Canada who hunts moose and uses the 250 gr. Speer Hot core. When I asked him why he didn't use a Partition he said no need. He got comlete pass throughs with the Hot Cores. I can't argue with that.
Paul B.
 

KinleyWater

Handloader
Jun 15, 2019
443
401
Ron,
Your generous offer humbles me; I will find a different source and let you know where you can find more. I reaffirm that this is a great community.

Dan,
Thanks. Best of luck with your upcoming hunt.

Alderman,
Good to know. Do you know what bullet he uses?

D21,
Thank you. I will give it a look over. And, maybe some day, I'll make it up your way.

Paul B.,
That's a lot of good info, thanks. 2710 is screaming for those all copper bullets. I wonder if the pressure difference came from a difference in chamber cut or freebore.
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,811
353
"Paul B.,
That's a lot of good info, thanks. 2710 is screaming for those all copper bullets. I wonder if the pressure difference came from a difference in chamber cut or freebore."

You got me on that one. I found the rifle at a gun show for $900. The guy said it was a Douglas barrel with 1 in 14" twist. The rifle felt do good when I shouldered it I didn't even try to quibble the price down a bit which is extremely rare for me. The Remington on the other hand has a 1 in 16" twist which I think should help in pressure reduction to some small extent. Guess it doesn't. It did quite nicely running 250 gr. Hot Core and 250 gr. Hornady Spire points and round nose bullets with H335 of all things. In fact those loads ran nicely in both rifles.
I went to the TSX bullet as I'd drawn a deer tag for an area where all copper bullets wre preferred, They shot so well in the Mauser that I never went back They did lock up the bolt on the Remington though. I just never went back to seeing what they would do in that rifle.
Paul B.
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,811
353
"
I'm planning on taking it to Idaho next year for spring bear, but I want to build up a different load as I am a little concerned about this bullet holding together.

Does anyone have experience or suggestions for a 35 cal pill that will do well on bear?"

I did some playing around with the Speer Hot Core 250 gr. bullet and the spire point and round nose 250 gr. Hornady.
It wasn't too hard getting decent groups using some data from a blog called Whelen's Northwoods trails. he has a series of articles and the one you want is the one by Paco Kelly. I used the data he posted for H335 powder and they chronographed within a few feet of what he posted. Accuracy was good and brass appeared as if all loads were mild. As far as bullet choice, either the Hot Core or the Spire Point would be which I would look at first. If you know for sure shoots will be under say 200 yards then I'd look at the round nose as well. Use the one that groups the best in your rifle.

I have a friend that lives in Canada and he and a hunting partner are avid moose hunters. Their bullet choice is for the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core. A while back my buddy snagged a coveted tag for Grizzly Bear andhe went with the Speer bullet for that hunt. Never did find out how it would work on old grizz and he never saw a bear. The point is he had total faith in that bullet.

My choice of bullet for the .35 Whelen is the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. Kind of a weird deal on that as I put in for a special deer hunt that requested the use of an all copper type bullet. The state even furnished a box of bullets for reloaders. I'd already bought some and the voucher for the freebies showed up two days prior to the hunt. The big surprise was in load work up. As I approached max groups really tighten up. At the max for my rifle, velocity was 2720 FPS at the muzzles and I was getting groups as small as one half inch about half the time with no groups above three-quarter inch. That magic load was 60.4 gr. Re15, Remington brass, Winchester WLR primer. I suggest if you want to try it, start at least three grains less powder and maybe four might be better but at least three. You stated your rifle is a Remington 700 Classic. That load proved to be way too hot for my Classic and it's also too hot for a Ruger M77 I have chambered to the Whelen. FWIW, all three rifles were fine with the Paco Kelly H335 load. I did start with something like two full grains and worked up to his load.

I have used that TSX bullet for six elk hunts and I got six one shot kills DRT. Didn't mess up too much meat. FWIW, that is the only copper bullet that has worked for me. I've tried 100 and 120 gr. bullets in the 25 Roberts and 120 and 140 gr. bullets in the 7x57 and .280 Remington with all giving equally bad result. Naturally YMMV.
I may down the road look at the 225 gr. AccuBond. I got some good result using one on an elk hunt. That year the scope on my .35 crapped out and the 06 was back up.

One the deer running a bit, that's perfectly natural. You said the heart was hit. The heart pumps blood to the brain plue the rest of the body. Bullet hits heart that has just pumped a fresh supply of blood lets that animal run a bit before the brain fails due to lack or oxygenated blood. If the bullet hit the heart when it has just filled up, the animal could drop DRT or maybe react with a short distance spurt of energy. That's how it was explained to me by a doctor I knew that hunted.
Paul B.
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,225
1,792
The Speer Hot Cor 220 grain FN works quite well on grizzly. The 225 grain TSX works very well on about anything, though I never popped a grizzly with that bullet.
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,811
353
D r. Mike, I really like the 225 gr. Barnes TSX in my Whelen. I wouldn't be too concerned about what I went after using it here in North America on most African game as well. It just fkat out works.
Paul B.
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,225
1,792
D r. Mike, I really like the 225 gr. Barnes TSX in my Whelen. I wouldn't be too concerned about what I went after using it here in North America on most African game as well. It just fkat out works.
Paul B.
That has been my "go to" bullet in my Whelen. It delivers excellent accuracy. I'm very comfortable with that bullet in the Whelen.
 

Brinky72

Beginner
Jan 25, 2019
171
31
I have had excellent results with both the Speer 250 Hot Cor and the Hornady 250 interlock. only other load I shot out of it was factory Remington 200 grain core lokt which was dang accurate and plenty for deer. I hear some guys swear by it for moose up in Maine. I use RL15 as my mainstay but have had good results with 2000MR and CFE223. Those get top end velocities with a 250 in the latest Speer manual and have proven accurate in my rifle at over 2700 (chrony velocities). My Whelen has been very easy to load for as far as finding good accuracy with any given load. I can vary the charge weight from 52 grains up to 59+ grains with a 250 and it shoots sub 1”. Only issue was with a batch of Remington brass sticking with heavy loads but, 52 grains shoots and kills as well as 59 so not an issue. To me my Whelen is like having a good dog. I‘ll never sell it and wonder how I got along before without it
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,811
353
" Second, I am impressed by the sheer will to live exhibited by a creature which was essentially walking dead - only one semi-functioning lung, no heart, and a broken shoulder - and it still made it about 30 yards. Just amazing. Third, the 35 Whelen is a deadly cartridge when pair with the correct loading."

No argument from me. Here's a case of four nice big Nevada Mule Deer. The shooters were four young kids on their first deer hunt with yours truly more or less the guide. Three boy and one girl ages 12 and 13. Rifle used was a Kodiak Mauser in .243, ugly as sin but deadly accurate. Don't remember who shot what as this was back in the late mid 1970s.
Shot number one dropped like a rock. Shots numbers two and three; one ran maybe 30 yards and the other closer to 50 yards. The last deer ran an impressive 250+ yards before running into a barb wire fence, He got back up and tried again, then once more before expiring. Good thing this was in fairly open country which made finding him easy.
All four deer were well hit in the heart lung area including the runner. When we opened him up the heart and lunger were a total mess. How that deer was able to run that far with all that damage is beyond me. Guess you just have to classify it as stuff happens.

"Does anyone have experience or suggestions for a 35 cal pill that will do well on bear?"

Well, My preferred load is the 225 gr. TSX over 60.4 gr. of Rl15, Remington brass and Winchester WLR primer. This is a top
load that works in my Custom Mauser. It is however much too hot for my Ruger, M77 and Remington 700 Classic. I believe the Nosler 225 gr. AccuBond or Partition would work just as well. I haven't used the 225 gr. Sierra so no comment. It probably will work just fine. If I ever get healed up I'm going to try the two Nosler bullets in the M77 and M700. I'll reserve the TSX bullet for the Mauser.

Paul B.
 

KinleyWater

Handloader
Jun 15, 2019
443
401
Thanks, gents. I ended up using the 250 Speers; they were deadly, but not as fast as I wanted.
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,811
353
The 250 gr. Speer is a good bulletas is the Hornady. I went to the TSX because of a hunt I wanted to do, The state was asking hunters in Kaibab National Forest to voluntarily use monometal bullets. If you were a reloader, the state gave you a certificate for a free box of the bullets (TSX). My wife and I had tags so we got two boxes free.
It's just my carefully considered opinion that possibly a 225 gr. bullet just may be the best weight for all round use. I think getting to 2600 FPS is fairly easy and I'm getting 2710 FPS from my Mauser custom. I took one elk with that load at 350 Yards.
I have a friend who lives in Canada and his go to bullet is the 250 gr. Speer. He uses it on moose. He drew a tag for Grizzly bear and said he was gonna use that Speer bullet for the hunt. He never saw a bear but he was confident using that bullet. I think with careful load work you should be able to reach 2500 FPS and mabe even 2550 FPS. Hard to. I know that I have one rifle, a Ruger M77 RSI in .308 Win. that shoots the 165 gr. Speer at 2550 FPS and I've taken deer s far out as 250 yards with that that load. I would think that the 250 gr. Speer at that velocity would do as well. If and when I heal up I just might give it a try. Probably make it in the Mauser but would do it with the M700 Classic. Probably be a bit of a shoulder bruiser in the M700. They're pretty light. My Mauser weighs about a pound more so is a lot more comfortable.
Paul B.
 
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