My study in "real bullet energy". SURPRISING

[Greg Nolan]

Like most of us I'm going thru my stuff and deciding which rifles to take hunting. California is a 300 WSM with 150 A/Bs, a given. Now Idaho this year takes a twist since I'm going to continue East to visit JDMAG in Tennessee and maybe to N. Carolina. I'll be in my pickup and don't want to carry many or expensive rifles but I want elk crush and mule deer reach and I wanted light weight (8 lbs max) I figured the 416 or 325 for elk and the 338 Fed or 280 for deer. I sighted everything in to 500 yds. All are accurate enough so which one or ones? HMMM Hows the power compare? Here's 500 yd. power.
300WSM = 1750 FPE 150 gr. A/B
416REM = 1400 FPE 300gr TSX
325 WSM = 1200 FPE 180 gr. TSX
338 Fed. = 1050 FPE 185 gr TSX
280Rem. = 1567 FPE 160 A/B
Suddenly my elk crusher isn't the 416 or 325 it's the 280 REM or 300 WSM. After 200 or 300 yds the big bruisers loose energy.
WOW :shock:
Just for grins I checked the 338 RUM at 2643 FPE and the 375 RUM at 2650 FPE The 300 RUM is 2300 FPE. The only 8 lb total with scope of the RUMS is the 338. I guess it's going for a ride. This was a real eye opener for a hunt with 300+ yd potential. The 416 is still king for the first 100 yds and has plenty out to 300 yds and at 8 lbs with scope it would make the trip exept it would require a long range (500yd) rifle to accompany it.
Just for grins you might want to run the numbers BC, VEL and FPE on your rifles.
Greg

 

[FOTIS]

BC rules in these cases Greg

 

[JD338]

Greg,

Fotis is right, BC is king.
You could just take the 338 RUM and not look back. Its a solid choice for anything you would hunt in NA.

JD338

 

[Greg Nolan]

I agree, the 338 RUM at 3116 fps and the 225 gr AccuBond with a BC of 550 will do the job on elk and shoots flat enough for mule deer. I was looking forward to carrying the 338 Fed. Kimber at 6 lbs with scope around the mountains but it truley is a 300 yard caliber for elk size game. Only using one gun does limit choices.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I also agree that it is BC for long range energy retention. Certainly if you want one rifle for elk to 500 yards, a .338 RUM or .340 Weatherby will carry the mail, having 2400 fp of energy at 500 yards with the 225 grain Partition. However, I am sure that in the real world, the .300 WM or the .325 WSM would do just fine for 95% of all this. Even the .338 Federal is no slouch to 300 yards with 210 Partitions at 2600 fps.

 

[gerry]

Greg I did the same thing in comparing several different cartridges and bullets I actually would use in them a couple of months ago here is what I came up with at 400 yards:

270 Win

130 gr AB - 3100 fps - 2256 fps - 1469 ft lbs
150 gr PT - 2900 fps - 2139 fps - 1523 ft lbs

280 Rem

140 gr AB - 3050 fps - 2294 fps - 1635 ft lbs
160 gr AB - 2850 fps - 2183 fps - 1693 ft lbs

30-06

150 gr E Tip - 3000 fps - 2183 fps - 1654 ft lbs
180 gr AB - 2750 fps - 2069 fps - 1711 ft lbs

35 Whelen

200 gr AB - 2875 fps - 1933 fps - 1659 ft lbs
225 gr AB - 2775 fps - 1964 fps - 1927 ft lbs

Again these are bullets That I would actually use in each cartridge at speeds that should be achieveable, the 270 would do a bit better if it had a 150 gr AccuBond and I think the 35 cal bullets actually have a higher b.c. than Nosler states, at least judging form my experience with the 225 gr AB. In the real world slight differences in energy aren't going to make any difference, how a bullet expands and how big of a hole it makes is much more important IMO. This should be an interesting thread.

 

[mcseal2]

Good read. For your hunt Greg the 280 and 338RUM would definitely handle anything you may encounter out to the ranges you may shoot.

 

[SJB358]

For me, I look at where the energy drops below 1500Ftlbs. That is where I call it max for my rifles. Just a standard, I try to stick with. Probably not right or wrong, but I think bullet action at that minimum should still be decent..

 

[OU812]

Greg feed that 325wsm a 200 TSX or 200AB and it's right back at the top of the pile.


Bill

 

[wildgene]

Greg feed that 325wsm a 200 TSX or 200AB and it's right back at the top of the pile.


Bill

...a 220gr. AccuBond would almost double (2200ft lbs.+) the energy of the 180gr. Barnes @ 500yds (40"drop/ 14" drift)...

 

[muleman]

Greg feed that 325wsm a 200 TSX or 200AB and it's right back at the top of the pile.


Bill

...a 220gr. AccuBond would almost double (2200ft lbs.+) the energy of the 180gr. Barnes @ 500yds (40"drop/ 14" drift)...

+1

Scott

 

[Greg Nolan]

Thanks, I have some 200 gr. Accubonds and partitions for the 325 and I'm loading them tonight. Thursday I'll sight in "EVERYTHING" not already sighted to 500 and I'm hoping the 325 comes thrue . I had a load with 68.5 grs. of IMR 4350 for 3030 fps in my last 325 but It's a hot load and I havn't tried it "YET" in the new 325.
Hey that 35 Whelen is a rompin stompin powerhouse for just being a 30-06 size case. The 338 Federal is limited my magazine size so It's stil a work in progress.

 

[wildgene]

Thanks, I have some 200 gr. Accubonds and partitions for the 325 and I'm loading them tonight. Thursday I'll sight in "EVERYTHING" not already sighted to 500 and I'm hoping the 325 comes thrue . I had a load with 68.5 grs. of IMR 4350 for 3030 fps in my last 325 but It's a hot load and I havn't tried it "YET" in the new 325.
Hey that 35 Whelen is a rompin stompin powerhouse for just being a 30-06 size case. The 338 Federal is limited my magazine size so It's stil a work in progress.

...you might want to try RL-17 in your .325, it's worked out very well for me, very good MV's/ accuracy w/ a number of different bullets. Suprformance gave good accuracy/ small SD, but MV's were disappointing compared to the claims...

 

[OU812]

Greg feed that 325wsm a 200 TSX or 200AB and it's right back at the top of the pile.


Bill

...a 220gr. AccuBond would almost double (2200ft lbs.+) the energy of the 180gr. Barnes @ 500yds (40"drop/ 14" drift)...

I'm all for a 220 PT or AccuBond in the 8mm flavor


Bill

 

[.280 Remington]

Great write up, thanks for posting.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Why not add the 180 AccuBond to the 300WSM?

 

[Greg Nolan]

OK, I've got the 200 gr. Partitions in the 325 WSM. for 2940 fps. A load I had from the past that worked great then and now. The 300 Wsm with the 150 gr. load is for California blacktail and they're smallish 100 to 150 lbs. Based on your suggestions the 338 RUM and the 325 WSM are going to Idaho and the 300 WSM and the 280 are going to Northern California. Since I'm going to have to send the rifles home from Idaho I'm limiting myself to two. I've gotten some great info on deer huning in Northern Idaho and I'm going to give it a try unless I score a bruiser while elk hunting. Three more weeks before I can hunt. ARRRRRGH!

 

[Polaris]

When you're talking 500 yards, the wind and your actual shooting ability with the rifle come into play big time.

To shoot game that far out, you need to REALLY be on intimate terms with your rifle and load. Talking 500+ round count per year from field positions in varing winds. I don't feel dialed in on 600yd highpower targets until the end of the match season. Are you likely to get that kind of practice with anything labeled RUM? Only if you own stock in a barrel manufacturer and know a good chiropractor that works pro-bono. The 280 rem, 300 WSM or a good ol 30-06 with a 180 AB are much more viable options for that kind of shooting practice.

Thanks for running those numbers. Very interesting read. Mirrors and explains the current trend towards higher BC premium hunting bullets in efficient rounds like the .280 and 6.5X284.

 

[Greg Nolan]

The RUMs are that accurate and I have muzzle brakes on them. I shot the 338 RUM just at the 500 yard target one time to see if it was still sighted correctly. It hit 2 inches from the one inch dot. That doesn't mean I'll be taking 500 yard shots. It's just a good way to verify trajectory hold and accuracy. I've always known Balistic coefficient was important but it wasn't until I started using a chronograph and checking drop out to 500 yards that I found out that the manufactors fudge on BC as much as they do on their ammunition velocities. I'll do a comparison test on published trajectory versus true trajectory and the corresponding BC differences. Swift A-Frames are one of the few manufactors that are pretty accurate.