new calibers from scratch
- Thread starter romex2121
- Start date
I don't know, you just have to approach it logically.
If it is a well established caliber that you just have not loaded for there should be plenty of data available. I would consult as many reloading manuals as you could. If it is a new caliber, just out, utilize the internet and check with the bullet manufacturers, powder makers, etc.
Narrow your search to powders that are indicated for the cartridge in question. There is no sense trying H 4895 in the 300 RUM, use a powder that fits the cartridge.
Pick a bullet weight that fits your needs, or what is classically thought as the ideal bullet weight for that gun. For instance, a 180 grain bullet is generally thought of as ideal for a 300 magnum of any sort.
I personally do not mess with OAL much at all. It would be the very last thing I would alter when trying to develop a good load for a new gun.
The same thing goes with primers. I do not try a half dozen primers in a new gun. I stick with a proven type such as a magnum primer in large cases and only try other primers if I cannot find the load I am looking for.
An example is a 6mm Remington I had made up in 1996. I put a lot of money in that thing and should have shot one hole groups. It just would not, kept getting flyers. I switched to Fed 210M primers and the flyers went away, got great groups.
Having said all that, sometimes it is just fun to try new things in a new gun. I bought a new 375 H&H a couple years back. I knew what worked in 3 other 375 H&H rifles, but I just had to experiment a little. I found that this gun preferred 270 grain bullets and a different powder than the other three. (The other three all shot best with 300 grain bullets.)
If it is a well established caliber that you just have not loaded for there should be plenty of data available. I would consult as many reloading manuals as you could. If it is a new caliber, just out, utilize the internet and check with the bullet manufacturers, powder makers, etc.
Narrow your search to powders that are indicated for the cartridge in question. There is no sense trying H 4895 in the 300 RUM, use a powder that fits the cartridge.
Pick a bullet weight that fits your needs, or what is classically thought as the ideal bullet weight for that gun. For instance, a 180 grain bullet is generally thought of as ideal for a 300 magnum of any sort.
I personally do not mess with OAL much at all. It would be the very last thing I would alter when trying to develop a good load for a new gun.
The same thing goes with primers. I do not try a half dozen primers in a new gun. I stick with a proven type such as a magnum primer in large cases and only try other primers if I cannot find the load I am looking for.
An example is a 6mm Remington I had made up in 1996. I put a lot of money in that thing and should have shot one hole groups. It just would not, kept getting flyers. I switched to Fed 210M primers and the flyers went away, got great groups.
Having said all that, sometimes it is just fun to try new things in a new gun. I bought a new 375 H&H a couple years back. I knew what worked in 3 other 375 H&H rifles, but I just had to experiment a little. I found that this gun preferred 270 grain bullets and a different powder than the other three. (The other three all shot best with 300 grain bullets.)
- Thread starter
- #3
throw a dart at your load book
I am working on my 257 wby right now so I had some 100 gr bt and 110 gr abs and some 120 gr partitions
So I picked up some 115 gr bt also
I have 7 loads to take to the range!
My theory is a gun will like a particular weight of bullet so I want to try as many different weights as I have available
Then I look at what powder I have on hand and then at the book to see what makes sense
Pick a load for each bullet you want to try and start at the midway point and see what happens
There is no exact science just know your going to burn a lot of powder bu tthe end result is hopefully worth it.
I am working on my 257 wby right now so I had some 100 gr bt and 110 gr abs and some 120 gr partitions
So I picked up some 115 gr bt also
I have 7 loads to take to the range!
My theory is a gun will like a particular weight of bullet so I want to try as many different weights as I have available
Then I look at what powder I have on hand and then at the book to see what makes sense
Pick a load for each bullet you want to try and start at the midway point and see what happens
There is no exact science just know your going to burn a lot of powder bu tthe end result is hopefully worth it.
clearwater
Handloader
- Feb 5, 2005
- 396
- 135
I have had good luck with the accuracy loads Lyman posts in their
recent manuals.
recent manuals.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
I pick the bullet first, then the powder with a burn rate compatable to the case/bullet. Brass is normally what is available, then the primer, usually a Win or Fed.Rick.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,525
- 4,786
Agree with the fact that there are some very well known & well respected hand loads for most of the cartridges that have been around a while. Ask shooters who have used them for a while, and chances are you'll see a trend. Also, contact the bullet & powder makers, they often have some very good suggestions.
A few years ago Hodgdon published a short article recommending H4350 for the .30-06. It made sense. I tried it, it worked very well. Cool.
Gun writer John Barsness wrote an article extolling H4350 in the .375 H&H mag. I tried his load - wow - it worked fine, just like he said it would!
When I got into precision shooting with the .308 years ago, Varget came on the scene and long-range shooters jumped on it. I listened and have loaded virtually nothing but Varget in the .308 for at least ten years and several barrels... The target shooting community knows their cartridges well!
When I was looking for a fast-stepping, accurate 7mm Rem mag load, I called Sierra and asked them about powder for the 160, they recommended working up to 65 grains of RL-22, which I did - and wow - it's been great in a couple of different 7mm Rem mags, and with both Sierra & Nosler bullets. I've found that Sierras "accuracy loads" are often very good.
When I wanted a 7mm mag load that would punch through a bull elk, I turned to my Nosler manual, looked at the data published for the 175 Nosler Partition, and ran with it. Back then they had a great H870 load that had no trouble breaking 2900 fps with the long & lethal 175... Nosler knows their bullets and what makes them sing.
When I wanted a 200 gr load for the .300 RUM, I found Nosler's AccuBond was The Bullet that many RUM shooters relied on. Here, and elsewhere I was told there was no need to look beyond a stout charge of Retumbo and the AccuBond... The guys were right. It is a terrific combination!
6mmBR.com has a bunch of articles on different cartridges. Very in-depth look at them too.
I figure out what I want to do with the cartridge/rifle, then do a little research to find out what has already been done with it... Ask the guys who've gone down the road before. Although each rifle is different, there are well known combinations of powder, bullet, brass and primers that have been proven to work well in many different rifles for many different shooters. Try to find out what those combos are and you'll be ahead of the game.
Regards, Guy
A few years ago Hodgdon published a short article recommending H4350 for the .30-06. It made sense. I tried it, it worked very well. Cool.
Gun writer John Barsness wrote an article extolling H4350 in the .375 H&H mag. I tried his load - wow - it worked fine, just like he said it would!
When I got into precision shooting with the .308 years ago, Varget came on the scene and long-range shooters jumped on it. I listened and have loaded virtually nothing but Varget in the .308 for at least ten years and several barrels... The target shooting community knows their cartridges well!
When I was looking for a fast-stepping, accurate 7mm Rem mag load, I called Sierra and asked them about powder for the 160, they recommended working up to 65 grains of RL-22, which I did - and wow - it's been great in a couple of different 7mm Rem mags, and with both Sierra & Nosler bullets. I've found that Sierras "accuracy loads" are often very good.
When I wanted a 7mm mag load that would punch through a bull elk, I turned to my Nosler manual, looked at the data published for the 175 Nosler Partition, and ran with it. Back then they had a great H870 load that had no trouble breaking 2900 fps with the long & lethal 175... Nosler knows their bullets and what makes them sing.
When I wanted a 200 gr load for the .300 RUM, I found Nosler's AccuBond was The Bullet that many RUM shooters relied on. Here, and elsewhere I was told there was no need to look beyond a stout charge of Retumbo and the AccuBond... The guys were right. It is a terrific combination!
6mmBR.com has a bunch of articles on different cartridges. Very in-depth look at them too.
I figure out what I want to do with the cartridge/rifle, then do a little research to find out what has already been done with it... Ask the guys who've gone down the road before. Although each rifle is different, there are well known combinations of powder, bullet, brass and primers that have been proven to work well in many different rifles for many different shooters. Try to find out what those combos are and you'll be ahead of the game.
Regards, Guy
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,073
- 2,593
Big Squeeze
Handloader
- May 29, 2007
- 828
- 0
.............................Simple!.......I wait for other guinea pigs to do it, which doesn`t take too long with new calibers. Then I`ll take their info, work up my loads and go from there.romex2121":1vf4xfcp said:
Beginning almost two years ago, that`s what I did with the 375 Ruger before too much data was out there.
Hi there, Great question.
In general, before I even look at a rifle, I want to understand why I am buying it... What kind of game and distance for the shot. With that in mind, I talk with a lot of hunters, check our forums like this one, and eventually find a caliber and a bullet that I want to shoot. I tend to start with what works for others, and then work my own load. Also, some rifles/calibers seem to like certain muzzle velocities, so I tend to load in that range. After that, I generally try a slow powder like 7828 and a faster one line 4831. (* BTW I shoot magnums almost exclusively *), or I use the exact load that works for a friend.
Some of my rifles took 50-70 shots before they started grouping, which I had not heard of before. But, after consulting some people on this site, and some friends, I found that is relatively common.
One hint, I also buy a box of high quality factory loads. I measure the velocity, check for how well it shoots, and then reload the brass. If the factory loads will shoot a 1 inch group, then I am well on my way.
Best
Hardpan
In general, before I even look at a rifle, I want to understand why I am buying it... What kind of game and distance for the shot. With that in mind, I talk with a lot of hunters, check our forums like this one, and eventually find a caliber and a bullet that I want to shoot. I tend to start with what works for others, and then work my own load. Also, some rifles/calibers seem to like certain muzzle velocities, so I tend to load in that range. After that, I generally try a slow powder like 7828 and a faster one line 4831. (* BTW I shoot magnums almost exclusively *), or I use the exact load that works for a friend.
Some of my rifles took 50-70 shots before they started grouping, which I had not heard of before. But, after consulting some people on this site, and some friends, I found that is relatively common.
One hint, I also buy a box of high quality factory loads. I measure the velocity, check for how well it shoots, and then reload the brass. If the factory loads will shoot a 1 inch group, then I am well on my way.
Best
Hardpan
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Romex, there is alot of good advice in this thread, but I will try to add my .02.
In general, I'm not much different then Rick, and Guy. I figure out what purpose I'm loading for, listen to the good shooters, and start with what is know to work. If I will be using a canister power, I chose my components in the same order as Rick. Bullet first, powder to match the bullet, primer to match the powder.
But lets say it's a wildcat, or new round, and there is very experience to draw from, and since I'm not as patient as B_S, (poke, poke :wink: )what do you do.
Usually, the first bullet I shoot will be either a Sierra match, or Nosler BT. Most rifles will shoot one of these very well. If I need to, I'll add in the spear flat base bullets. These are all inexpensive bullets that shoot very well. Save the expensive bonded bullets for later.
Assuming I'm using cannister powder, I'll look for a traditional stick powder (H4831, 4350, 4895) and a ball powder (w748, 760, blc-2) and maybe an alliant powder. If you have a broad selection of Vihtavuori powders, try one of them as well. In each of these cases, I will choose the slowest of it's type, that will give me a good case full of powder, and top velocities.
For Brass, Winchester is usually my first choice. It's good brass, and will not break the bank. Lapua is considered the best (and most expensive), I've never had a bad experence with Remington brass. I've had bad experiences with Federal brass. I'll use it if it's free, but not use it if working something up totally from scratch. Junk brass is one variable I don't need.
Next, when it comes to figuring out the charges, look at the parent cartridges, as Pop for a quick load, and start conservative. The greater the difference between the parent and new cartridge, the more conservative you should start.
So, with a good variety of powders and bullets that are proven in a variety of cartridges, with a little expermentation, you can usually find something that will work very well.
From there, it's just a matter of bench time, running through the combinations until you find something it likes.
In general, I'm not much different then Rick, and Guy. I figure out what purpose I'm loading for, listen to the good shooters, and start with what is know to work. If I will be using a canister power, I chose my components in the same order as Rick. Bullet first, powder to match the bullet, primer to match the powder.
But lets say it's a wildcat, or new round, and there is very experience to draw from, and since I'm not as patient as B_S, (poke, poke :wink: )what do you do.
Usually, the first bullet I shoot will be either a Sierra match, or Nosler BT. Most rifles will shoot one of these very well. If I need to, I'll add in the spear flat base bullets. These are all inexpensive bullets that shoot very well. Save the expensive bonded bullets for later.
Assuming I'm using cannister powder, I'll look for a traditional stick powder (H4831, 4350, 4895) and a ball powder (w748, 760, blc-2) and maybe an alliant powder. If you have a broad selection of Vihtavuori powders, try one of them as well. In each of these cases, I will choose the slowest of it's type, that will give me a good case full of powder, and top velocities.
For Brass, Winchester is usually my first choice. It's good brass, and will not break the bank. Lapua is considered the best (and most expensive), I've never had a bad experence with Remington brass. I've had bad experiences with Federal brass. I'll use it if it's free, but not use it if working something up totally from scratch. Junk brass is one variable I don't need.
Next, when it comes to figuring out the charges, look at the parent cartridges, as Pop for a quick load, and start conservative. The greater the difference between the parent and new cartridge, the more conservative you should start.
So, with a good variety of powders and bullets that are proven in a variety of cartridges, with a little expermentation, you can usually find something that will work very well.
From there, it's just a matter of bench time, running through the combinations until you find something it likes.
cold_hunter
Beginner
- Jan 26, 2009
- 85
- 0
that 270 wsm is in the newest nosler book right. so if you want a 130gr bullet go with one that wont pop like the BT does out of the 270 win like the AB or PT. look in the book and find the most accurate load it is 59grs of IMR4350 and there you go. it only goes 3051 so if you want full speed but still accurate go with 63grs of RL22 for 3301. see right out of nosler # 6 simple and to the point.
cold_hunter
Beginner
- Jan 26, 2009
- 85
- 0
by the wat i can be a bit blunt at times
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,389
- 6,742
I look at the higher velocities and fullest load density. I also check in the Nosler RG for the most accurate powder tested. It is usually spot on.
JD338
JD338
- Thread starter
- #16
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,389
- 6,742
Always remember to cross reference your load data, even from the internet, to ensure you have safe loads.
JD338
JD338
+1 on what JD338 said earlier.
Load density, most accurate powder suggested provided its a common powder (for me anyways). I tend to start in the middle of the load data recomendations. BUT I have been loading for 30 yrs and very familar with the powders I use and have a certain level of expectations.
Alot of factors can come into play... Take a target bullet vs a hunting bullet for example, just the bearing surface differences of the same weight bullet can come into play concerning psi.
So Bottom line, follow the book..... Current Book too!!!
My preferred powders are Hodgdon and Alliant.
Rod
Load density, most accurate powder suggested provided its a common powder (for me anyways). I tend to start in the middle of the load data recomendations. BUT I have been loading for 30 yrs and very familar with the powders I use and have a certain level of expectations.
Alot of factors can come into play... Take a target bullet vs a hunting bullet for example, just the bearing surface differences of the same weight bullet can come into play concerning psi.
So Bottom line, follow the book..... Current Book too!!!
My preferred powders are Hodgdon and Alliant.
Rod
roysclockgun
Handloader
- Dec 17, 2005
- 736
- 0
Most all the good answers have already been used up! The only thing that I can add is that when I have a new rifle, chambering a round which I have not previously loaded, I do read all the data on that round that I can find, and, I ask questions here. After I have delved into the "theory" end, I begin on the "practice" venture. For me, it is the journey and not the destination that is the juice. One of my primary hobbies is hand loading, and I enjoy the process.
I consider what I want and the nature of the rifle. If the cartridge is primarilly to be for hunting, I look toward getting higher MV, that translates into flatter trajectory. If I am loading to punch paper, I want the low end MV that will get the bullet to the target. Barrel length points me in what direction I want to go, in terms of burn rate. In a magnum, with 26+ inch barrel, I want a slow burn rate. A shorter barrel calls for faster burn rate. Muzzle blast is wasted propellant and not what I want in seeking the most efficient load.
Once I look at all of that, I decide which propellant and bullet may already be in my gun room, upon which I can base my starting load. If I get what I want with components on hand, I am satisfied, until I use all of that stuff up!
That said, the quest really never ends, as I am always looking to get tighter groups, or higher MV while maintaining accuracy, or........whatever!
Handloading has a lot to do with the quote that follows my signature.
Steven A.
I consider what I want and the nature of the rifle. If the cartridge is primarilly to be for hunting, I look toward getting higher MV, that translates into flatter trajectory. If I am loading to punch paper, I want the low end MV that will get the bullet to the target. Barrel length points me in what direction I want to go, in terms of burn rate. In a magnum, with 26+ inch barrel, I want a slow burn rate. A shorter barrel calls for faster burn rate. Muzzle blast is wasted propellant and not what I want in seeking the most efficient load.
Once I look at all of that, I decide which propellant and bullet may already be in my gun room, upon which I can base my starting load. If I get what I want with components on hand, I am satisfied, until I use all of that stuff up!
That said, the quest really never ends, as I am always looking to get tighter groups, or higher MV while maintaining accuracy, or........whatever!
Handloading has a lot to do with the quote that follows my signature.
Steven A.
