New guy looking for Accubond help

[FreshAir]

So i am new to this forum/reloading and was hoping i could get some help on a load i have been working on for a while.

History-
My rifle (a Savage 30-06) shoots 150's great but but has never liked 180gr bullets in factory loads. The best group i ever got out of it was with Federal Fusion at about 1.2".

When i first started reloading for the -06 i started with the Nosler 180 gr Ballistic Tips and IMR 4350 and WLR's, after 5 loads i had it shooting consistent .4/.5" groups. This got me very excited to say the least so i picked up a box of Accubonds and Partitions and was hoping for the same results. Well... after a number of different loads i cant seem to get the Accubonds or Partitions to group any less that 1.6". Where i hunt, shots past 200 yards just dont happen so i am more than confident i can stay well within M.O.E. "minute of Elk" but i would really like to get this load down below the inch range. Should i try a new powder, primer or spray the rifle down with holy water to get the demons out. :lol:

180 gr Ballistic Tip load
R-P or FC brass
WLR primer
55.0 grains IMR 4350
3.344 COL
3.373 Chamber measurment
results .4"

180 gr AccuBond
R-P or FC brass
WLR primes
tried 52-55 grains of IMR 4350
tried from 3.341 to 3.345
Best group was with 55 grains and 3.3415 at 1.6"

 

[velvetant]

My hunting buddy uses H4350 with 180gr NAB and gets sub 1" groups but can't get a 180gr NBT to group.
There are so many variables you can try. might be as simple as a primer or powder change.
I personally get the bullet I want and try as many different powders as I can to get it to shoot the way I want.
Does not always happen though.
Try seating depth, unless you did a typo you only varied .004" try deeper to see if there is a sweet spot.
I've gone as deep as .150" off the lands
Try a primer change, maybe a magnum primer.
Lot's of places to still go so don't give up.
A little more info on the loads you have tried might help us help you

 

[Murphdog]

Welcome to the forum

Here is my 180 grain Partition load has worked very well in both of my 30-06

180 grain Nosler Partition, Win. case, Fed 210 primers, 60 grains of RL 22, oal 3.335 I have not checked the velocity in my Win 70 exteme weather, my old model 70 was just over 2800. My extreme weather is shooting a 3 shot group at .450". This load pounds elk.

I am guessing that you are not mixing the brass but if you are don't. The Remington brass is of heavier construction and will have higher pressure with the same powder charge.

 

[FreshAir]

Yes thats correct, i have only moved it .004 deeper. When i tried to go past 3.345 with the BT's my accuracy went south in a hurry so i figured the AB would do the same. When developing a new load what is a safe increment to change the COLwith out having to worry about pressure jumping too much? Thanks for the input!

the loads i have tried have been...
52.0 grains at 3.341
53.0 grains at 3.341
53.5 grains at 3.341 ( these three were REALLY bad some where around 3")
54.0 grains at 3.341 slightly better group but still bad 2.2ish "
54.5 grains at 3.341 no real noticable difference from 54.0
55.0 grains at 3.341 1.6" group
55.0 grains at 3.345 no change in group

 

[FreshAir]

Welcome to the forum

Here is my 180 grain Partition load has worked very well in both of my 30-06

180 grain Nosler Partition, Win. case, Fed 210 primers, 60 grains of RL 22, oal 3.335 I have not checked the velocity in my Win 70 exteme weather, my old model 70 was just over 2800. My extreme weather is shooting a 3 shot group at .450". This load pounds elk.

I am guessing that you are not mixing the brass but if you are don't. The Remington brass is of heavier construction and will have higher pressure with the same powder charge.

Thanks for the welcome and the info..... If i cant get better accuracy with the 4350 i will take a look at RL22.

I was using the same load in both FC and RP brass but in seperated batches . Both brands of brass looked good after firing but the FC's primer pockets felt lose so they will be put in the recycle bin.

 

[JD338]

FreshAir

Welcome to the forum.

Try seating your bullets .015-.020" off te lands and see where this gets you.

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

The 180 Ballistic Tips are shooting great?

Use them on elk with confidence. That's what they're for. Buddy of mine took 180 B-Tips to Africa and killed all sorts of plains game there with them. He and the PH said that the B-Tip killed faster than the Partitions he also used. B-Tips are a lot tougher than they were originally, a long time ago.

 

[JD338]

Guy brings up a very good point. The 308 cal 180 gr BT is a very robust bullet and is ideal for elk.

JD338

 

[6mm Remington]

Fresh Air it's nice to have you here among us. It might just be that except for the 180 BT's in your rifle, that it does not like 180's. I shoot nothing but 165 gr. Partitions or Accubonds in my 30-06 and have killed a lot of elk with it to include, coyotes, deer, and antelope. I think if your rifle likes the 165's, I would just stick with them.

165 gr. AccuBond or Partition, IMR4350 - 57.4 grs for my rifle using Winchester cases, Federal large rifle primers The 165's a dandy. Good luck!

 

[Powerstroke]

Fresh-Air,

Again - welcome to the forum

I can't say much that hasn't already been said. I've done this with several different calibers, and generally never get
the NBT's & AB's to shoot anywhere close to the same.
At that point I start playing the powder game and changing powders.

As JD mentioned I'll generally find my sweet spot somewhere between that .015 and .020 off the lands -

FWIW - I've used the 180 NBT out of my .300RUM on elk. Unless you're really wanting to change tip color those green tips
would work great on elk from your -06

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Freshair,
JUST SHOOT THE BALLISTIC TIPS.
The 180gr Ballistic tip is a well built ELK SLAYER.

I'll be shooting the 200gr BT's in my .338 WM on elk this year.

 

[FreshAir]

Well i think after hearing what everyone has to say i am going to.......

* Play with my seating depth more this winter to try and get some more accuracy out of the AB load.
If that dose not fix it i will try a new powder... if that does not work i might try some 165's

* I am going to forget about the AB's till after elk season and take BT's since my gun is dialed in and shoots them soo well.

Guy- Powerstroke- Antelope Sniper: it's good to hear first hand experience from those who have used the BT's on big game and have good results. I had heard enough people who claimed the BT's did not work well on larger game that it made me second guess myself. But after doing some looking last night i found out what most of you probably already know... The "old" BT's are not the same as the "new" versions and If you keep the 180+ grain .308's below 2800/2900 fps they work very well and hold together just fine.

So, now all i need is for the next 20 days to fly by and then hopefuly find a nice Elk to put into my scope.

Thanks again for all the input guys 8)

 

[JD338]

The BT is designed for 3000 fps IMPACT velocity. You are golden using the 180 gr BT in your 30-06.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Looking at some cutaways some of the other folks have done on the 180gr BT it looks like it might be a perfect bullet for the 30-06. It has really did a great job shooting the little Muley's in California for me. Never found one inside a deer using my 300WM. One of my good buddies swears by the 180gr BT in his 300 WBY. He has not failed to kill any elk, deer, or bear he has shot. I think you are in great shape with them. Scotty

 

[Murphdog]

Ok someone has to be the devils Advicate- Whereas I always carry a handful of 165 grain btips for long range application on elk btips are not partitions. Most of the time neither you nor the elk will be able to tell the difference.

BTs are absolutely wonderful bullets for accuracy, long range preformance and delivering lots of enegry to the target. They are very deadly when applied directly to the boiler room. However do not ask them a close range to crush bone and keep driving through the body cavity of a large elk. If you hit bone,heavy muscle, or a full paunch I doubt very strongly that you will get an exit wound. Elk seem to have a habbit of not acting like they have been touched even if they are dead on their feet. Becareful not to assume too quickly that you missed (applies to any bullet). An exit wound will insure that you will have some blood and you will know that you have a hit. Don't take rear angling shots at the left side (the liver is on the right side and a direct hit to the liver results in an elk that doesn't travel very far and dies quickly). Btips are not as meat friendly as partions. I have found over the years that it is not the 300 yard shots the challenge a bullet it is the 30 yard shots. The only time I have had any miss givings about the 180 grain Partition from the 30-06 is at point blank with a marginal shot presentation. I will take the chance on a head/neck shot rather then risk wounding an elk that I may not be able to recover. If the elk is still and you can control your adrenlin (not always easy)a head or upper neck shot is not that difficult and the results are impressive. Oh don't shoot bulls in the head if you are interested in the horns it sort of folds them up. Learned that lesson from someone else.

Bottom line if you understand the strengths and weakness of any given bullet, play to the strengths while avoiding the pit falls you will be able to pull off those less then perfect shots. However in the end if you can't make the shot without a high probability of putting the elk down quickly, you must pass up the shot and work for a better opportunity.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

The 180gr BT is a well constructed bullet. It's jacket is very similar to that of the AccuBond, it's just not bonded. At 30.06 velocities, I suspect it would be difficult to much difference between the two bullets. It's important to remember the AccuBond is designed to retain 70% of it's bullet mass. When launching a bullet above 3100 or 3200, it's often a good idea to switch to accubonds. But at 30.06 speeds, the 180gr BT will open quickly providing a huge initial shock, and the heavy rear construction will retain more weight then expected. Add in the fact that they are more accurate AND alot cheaper, it's a pretty easy decision.

 

[SJB358]

Man, I have about 300 of them on the bench and nothing I really want to use them in. They are a little too big for the 308 and I have 200gr PT's for the 300WM. I still might mess with them a little. They are some really good shooting bullets in both rifles. Scotty

 

[Alaska]

My load for years in the 30-06

IMR 4350 @ 57.0
180gr AB/BT or Part
WW Brass
Fed 210M primer