New IN Reg Proposal, New Hunting Options, New .257 Bee???

350JR

Handloader
Sep 21, 2012
339
1
HA........just when you thought you got RID of me, I'm BACK. :wink:

Not real common knowledge and nope, not yet carved in stone is the "proposed" regulation change in Indiana to allow for:

"•Allows additional rifles to be used by reducing the bullet size required to .243 and eliminating the maximum rifle cartridge case length. This will allow high-powered rifles such as the .30-30 and .45-70 during the deer firearms seasons. Full metal jacketed bullets would be unlawful because since they do not expand when fired, and therefore, do not kill as humanely. "

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/2362.htm

(Oh man, do you think I cracked up much reading this? 30-30? 45-70? Right. Nothing "wrong" with such but I, personally, am willing to bet those two will be NOT near the top of the list of rounds Mr. Average Hoosier Deerhunter reaches for.)

The proposal has several hurdles to jump but cleared the first one and there has been but ONE time such a proposal did NOT pass and was sent back to the drawing board so , while not yet "law" for 2015......odds are favorable it will fly. It DOES have some major foes that "allegedly" are screaming that the sky is falling and "the deer herd will be wiped out!" "I wont have any chance to shoot a "book" buck. They will all be dead!!" etc, etc. Much of what I see comes from the same hunters that have wanted to move firearm season out of the rut all together. Bowhunters only. Yep. You guess it. THAT was part of the one and only proposal that bit the dirt. (That I can find record of.) IMHO about every anti-regulation poster gives a reason involved "ME ME ME......what about what I want???" To say that Indiana's seasons and limits are liberal, is an understatement. I've hunted all the deer seasons and love them all too.

Anyway, should it pass, this will put an end to the current ".357 minimum bore, maximum 1.8" case" regulation for rifle rounds allowed that are responsible for the development of rounds like my 350JR. Yes. There are some wildcat chambering gunsmiths and shops in IN that INITIALLY might panic but, if passed, sure would open the door for more rifle sales. Not a lot of people wanted to spend the money to go the Hoosier legal wildcat round.

So, while ahead of the game, this has me looking at how such would change HOW I hunted whichever given area I can do so. Honestly, I don't think that a LOT of hunters will do that initially (and boy do I know a lot of deer hunters here) and they will pick up their choice in round and rifle.......and sit where they always sat. Still great areas? You bet! Set up for over 100 yard shots? Not very often. Pick any hunting area here locally and swing by during firearm season and 99.99 percent of the hunter orange you can see (and all you cannot see) are IN the woods.

I did shoot a couple does with my 350JR from inside the woods, but THEY were NOT in the woods and the single buck, also the first deer I shot with my wildcat was shot from a ditchbank a full 225 yards out and I'd have not even SEEN this buck (or the second buck or the 11 does I saw the first 2 hours of season) had I sat in the "same ol, same ol" spots Ive hunted for some 4 decades now.

Old habits die hard but if the regs allowing for standard HPR rounds passes, IN TIME many will see the light and move to where such truly allows for use of their extended ranges.

I do have a few misgivings on this simply because the "average" Hoosier hunter has VERY little experience with ANY kind of centerfire rifle use. Decades back when groundhogs were plentiful almost all of us owned and used a varmint rifle. Today, such is not the case. I hope and pray Joe Hunter doesn't think they have a magic wand buying a centerfire and "anyone kin shoot a deer with one as fer as you kin see em!!" . Don't laugh. That's a direct quote I recently heard at a local shop.

Even after several thousand varmint rounds being fired in my past at ranges up to 500 yards, I know I still would have my work cut out for me familiarizing myself with gun and round of choice and working loads and while I'm not going to jump the gun and run out and buy anything NOW, I will be closely watching what passes in the spring. Should this pass, the summer is going to be a busy one loading and shooting after the initial chin scratching decisions are made on gun, round and glass (more on THAT later, lol)

The wildcat bug has bit me pretty hard and while I DO have a smaller bore (than the 358) in the thinking and drawing phase, it is more based around a super light, short action, "walking rifle" for this old fart and is not, in any way, being considered as a "long range" cartridge even though it would suffice. What long range IS to each of us is relative but , for ME, a short action, 22 inch barreled 6.5 lb rifle is not the platform I'd pick for.....MY version of "long range".

Besides........any excuse to build or buy TWO rifles is a good one. Right? :grin:

I've two areas in the areas I hunt that I've watched for several years. One I have even went and sat where I would "if I could use a rifle" in the area, more often than not, watching a few to several deer including a couple HOSS bucks, feeding, chasing or just passing through in these fields a FULL 300 yards plus out from ANY kind of cover....or more. A lot miss them out there. With a few "gullies" in this field and the back side of it being over the crest of what constitutes a "hill" in Indiana (we be pretty FLAT here, lol) all of this goes on OUT of view from any of the nearby roads. This is, IMO, an example of what I call a "sleeper" spot. No one DREAMS of hunting out there and don't give it the first look, let alone the second. The distances are long and most don't even know that the back side of this HUGE field (a triangle 2400ftx2600ftx 3200ft (creek)) even drops down out of view. I thought about it and using the 350Jr but stretching such attempting to MAKE it work on long range was just not within my parameters. It's either RIGHT for the job.......or it's WRONG.

Sitting in this field below the crest of the "hill" on the back side, distances of possible shots run from 250 straight to the creek to over 600 (stretching to max visibility) to the far corner. ALL shots would be angled downward towards the creek and there isn't a house or other building for a mile in that direction anyway. What hunters are in the area are friends and I know where they are, which is not even close to any shot path but for one area that I simply would need wait and see if any spotted deer in that one area move my way.....or his.

I should add that on the OTHER side of this creek is roughly 40 acres of unfarmable, low, often wet, JUNK that whitetails so love to ram around in or just stay in out of harms way. Water and food is but yards away from the edges.

Many standard, well proven rounds would "work" better than probably my abilities are to use such so choices in round and rifle are , as they should be, personal. I've always stood behind each hunter's choice in firearm of any kind. We like what we like or maybe it's just something one has never had and wants to give one a "shot". It matters NOT if I LIKE IT or not but should help using it be something asked for, I've tried my best.

The combination of my aging body not motorvating as well as it once did. Climbing up tree stands are now out of the question as is even a half mile hike to my stand. Combine these factors with the ever annoying number of hunters IN the woods' in the area and all have me looking at the "wide open spaces" just a little bit closer than I had. This could work......just DANDY, if I play my cards right.

BECAUSE I've always read about, wondered about, often admired Roy Weatherby's work in his "different than everyone else's" rounds I've been giving them a look. Nope, never had one either. Never have had the chance to SHOOT one even. It's all rather exasperating to a cartridgle lover like me. Till now, other than out of state hunts which I always did bowhunting as a younger version of what I am now, such was just not feasible. If this passes as expected such would still not be "needed" (geez I hate that word when used for firearms or rounds) one would CERTAINLY be "usable". :grin:

The 257 Bee kind of leaps out at you if one looks. A. Several other companies chamber rifles for this round OTHER than Weatherby. hmmmmm Not a lover of intense RECOIL, the 257 Bee also gets the nod. I will grudgingly admit that to a resident of a state that has used slug guns for the bulk of it's deer hunting history and the recent ".357 minimum" legislation........I do view the .257 bore as "dinky" :oops: even though I KNOW IT WORKS. It's just SO much smaller in both weight and diameter than "the norm" in my life for deer. It's "alien" lol I had a 2506......for groundhogs. :grin:

So here I am with a question or two, if you kind and ever helpful people will oblige.

Yes. The 257 Bee with appropriate medium game bullet will stand a deer on it's nose.....pretty far out. MY question is this. WHAT IF the deer appears 80 yards away "out of nowhere"? I've worries about the super high speeds of this round turning a few to several pounds of "moose-mush" and I am, first and foremost, a "meat hunter". I like big ol bucks and would whack one with glee, but such is not my reason TO hunt, like so many. Color me with any tar brush you wish. Such is still the case after all these decades. Daddy took me hunting.......for meat for supper. I stand on that family tradition with pride.

The SECOND is......man, it seems like such heresy to do so, never owning a Mark V but I'm considering the purchase of one and looking at ALL the rifles chambered for such OR one of the old time Remington actions Ive loved for decades rebarreled and rechamberd for such. Is there ISSUES there I need to be aware of??

As always, God Bless each and every one, safe hunting and a heart felt THANK YOU for your input should you so offer such.

Steve
 

Dr. Vette

Handloader
Apr 16, 2012
1,316
28
Had to wait a day between typing this reply and posting it thanks to the board being down, so here is my answer...

My thought is how much would you want to spend, would you load for it, etc. Ammo price may also be a consideration.

If it were me, I would use a Vanguard in 270 Winchester. Cheap ammo, accurate as the day is long, and one of my favorite rifles. So much so that I own 3 of them. Sunday I was hitting steel at 360 yards using factory ammo and a Leupold scope with CDS dial. Sweet rifle.

If you want the 257, I would still consider the Vanguard to start, as they are half the price or less of a Mark V and at least as accurate if not more. I would not personally worry about the Nosler Ballistic Tip or AccuBond at shorter ranges, and in fact will be using mine for antelope and deer this fall. 3400fps with a 110 NBT is screamin'!

Patrick
 

350JR

Handloader
Sep 21, 2012
339
1
Hmmm.......well, don't feel like the lone stranger waiting a day.

I thought I deleted this thread. LOL

OH yeah, the 270 Win is a great round. I've no qualms there and no decisions have been made. I'm just gathering up info from those willing to share. It just seems to me that, at least once, I should own a Weatherby.

I definitely will load for whatever I get. I don't think I've ever hunted with factory anything other than only the magnums in shotshells. ( and shotgun slugs.....few that there were).

I was just reading the thread on the 270 Win in a 22 inch barrel when I noticed my post was still here.
It's especially hard for me to NOT look at a 270 Win because....there still exists some 700 BDL's floating around from the 70s and 80s (the ones I LIKE) I think I "gotta have". Several in 270 Win. :)

???? Not sure what exactly happened but.........I KNOW I deleted this this morning. LOL

God Bless
 

Rigbymauser

Handloader
Nov 3, 2012
496
0
Pros and cons regarding the .257Wea. When I had my .270Wea made up I was looking very hard on the .257Wea(and .264Win). Here was the few reasons I chose the .270Wea over the .257Wea:

The .257Wea shoots a 117grain bullet @ 3400 ft/sec...so does a .240Wea with a 100grain = 17grain difference ain´t much difference in my book and the animals would never know the difference either.
In order to comply with Danish huntinglaws for shooting red stag the caliber must shoot a bulletweight above 139grain.
The .270caliber in general offers a wider span of bulletsweights from 90-180grain which qualify this caliber to actually to be called a biggame caliber with the heaviest bullets like the 160grain Nosler or 180grain Woodleigh. Something the really .257Wea isn´t.
As far as the ballistic trajectory .257Wea vs .270Wea match . However the .270WEa comes with over +40% more energy.
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,304
564
AS for the 257 Wby, Dr.Vette and RM gave some great info. I will only add in the 264 Win Mag really blends well between the 257 Weatherby and 270 Weatherby. 140's at 3150-3200, easy to come by cases, and has the ability to reach longer than both due to the high BC bullets available.

My little brother runs a 257 Wby in a Vangard. He runs the 120PT at 3300 from his rifle. While not easy on meat, it isn't going to ruin anything more less than a slew of other faster cartridges. Use what you feel you want. You can always rebarrel/rebore if you don't like it. The only downside to the 257 Wby is the cost of brass in my book. If I were to get a 257 Wby, I'd likely switch over to using 7mm Rem Mag brass just to keep it affordable.
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,540
1,037
Took me a while to read through all that. Think I got the gist though! You want info on the .257 Wby! Cool.

Grandpa had one of the early ones, and it was an awe inspiring rifle back in the 1940's, 50's and 60's when he was using it to evaporate ground squirrels and pound an occasional California blacktail deer. We still have that rifle, though I haven't got it back to the point where I'm comfortable hunting with it. Mechanical issues on the old beast.

I use the .25-06 which is a bit behind the Weatherby in speed, but similar.

My son uses the little 6mm Rem. Smaller, zippy.

Any of these do a fine job on deer near or far.

You asked what to do if that buck steps out 80 yards away. Simple answer: Shoot it!

Don't over-worry about it. Yes you can destroy a shoulder's worth of meat, as with any high velocity cartridge. BUT, if you smack that buck in the chest... What do you destroy? Heart. Lungs. Maybe a little rib meat.

Go with the Nosler Partition and even if the front over-expands, the rear section will continue to penetrate. I normally use the 115 gr Ballistic Tip... With excellent results. The E-Tip looks great, as does the 110 gr AccuBond.

Go for it! The .257 Wby is still one heck of a zippy cartridge.

Guy
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,540
1,037
Steve, also, if you like Rem 700's, like I do... You may be able to find a good clean Rem 700 in .257 Weatherby! They were made for a few years. Don't know if they still are or not...

Worth a thought.

Also, yes, it would be easy to re-barrel any Rem 700 already chambered for a magnum cartridge to the .257 Wby mag.

Regards, Guy
 

wayno945

Handloader
Jan 29, 2012
394
0
I have a Rem CDL in 257 WBY that I'm probably going to sell. PM me if you're interested.
 

350JR

Handloader
Sep 21, 2012
339
1
There has been a few CDLs on gunbroker and I've kind of half kept track on how they sell. Wood-pecker that I am and BDL lover is the reason for my question on any possible issues rebarreling an older BDL in the Wby rounds. I just got stuck loving the monte carlo cheek piece on a rifle but the CDLs are ok. I like the fluted barrel. Knowing me I'd keep an eye peeled for a BDL stock though :grin:

I just never run into a CDL that has muchfor wood grain.

LOTS of time to decide on a round or rifle yet.

I think one of the thing that caught my attention on the 257 wby was the youtube videos of guys shooting them.

Regardless of the immense amount of powder they burn, it sure doesn't look like that barrel MOVES much when one is fired. I am in FULL agreement that the 277 bore is a great one, no offense to all the high BC caliber lovers. The 277 still works pretty well. Ask anyone shooting a 270 Win (for decades.) lol

As always, MANY thanks for opinions and experiences!!

God Bless
 

350JR

Handloader
Sep 21, 2012
339
1
and I just went to GB........site is down, AGAIN. I wonder how many strokes these site failures have caused if such happens towards end of an auction some are watching. :lol:

God Bless

back up now........never lasts long.
 

350JR

Handloader
Sep 21, 2012
339
1
AH YES.........which brings up a question. Buying a USED rifle in a Weatherby round?

Aren't most fairly HARD on barrels? I think there was were the original idea of buying a used BDL and rebarreling came to light in my head.

Velocity, knock down etc etc.........all good. Accuracy is MANDATORY.

God Bless
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,540
1,037
You might well find yourself a very nice looking older BDL in .300 Win mag or 7mm Rem mag and re-barrel it. Simple job, no other mods needed.

Guy
 

Dr. Vette

Handloader
Apr 16, 2012
1,316
28
350JR":11dkynal said:
AH YES.........which brings up a question. Buying a USED rifle in a Weatherby round?

Aren't most fairly HARD on barrels? I think there was were the original idea of buying a used BDL and rebarreling came to light in my head.

Velocity, knock down etc etc.........all good. Accuracy is MANDATORY.

God Bless

If you watch GB, there are usually a fair number of Vanguards that are not used much that are for sale in 257 Wby. There are a lot more in 300 Wby, but once you shoot one you know why. :mrgreen:
And, I would not hesitate given the accuracy I've seen from my Vanguards.
 
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