Non-temperature sensitive rifle powder

[Guest]

I read H4831 a good non-temp. sensitive powder.... any others?

 

[DrMike]

Hodgdon lists as extreme powders: H1000, H50BMG, H4198, H322, H4350, H4895, H4831, H4831SC, Varget, Benchmark, and Retumbo.

Some powders will certainly give you increased pressure with higher temperatures, so it is a good idea to work up a load at, or near, the temperatures you plan to shoot the load. There is certainly some loss of velocity with very low temperatures, but even some of the powders that are considered temperature-sensitive will still shoot quite well for me at -40 C.

 

[JD338]

All powders are temperature sensitive over their normal temp range.
Having said that, some do work better than others.
Some claim RL 22 is temp sensitive but I have found it to be more of a Lot to Lot consistency issue. Accuracy is exceptional in my 280 AI and 338 RUM.

I have had good luck with Allient RL 15, 19, 22, and 25 powders, all Hodgdon powders, and DuPont IMR 4350, IMR 4831 powders in the past. I have always done my load development over the summer months and confirmed zeros just prior to hunting season. I have never had to worry about shooting a cold season load in hot weather and getting pressure spikes.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Only a matter of time before all of them will be extreme. Too much competition!

 

[RiverRider]

The Hodgdon "Extreme" line of powders, as mentioned already, are temperature tolerant and so are the Ramshot powders. Alliant's Re15 and Re17 are temperature tolerant also.

Re22 is sensitive to temperature differences and so is Re19. I have heard of velocity losses of up to 200 fps with loads developed in the warmer months using Re22 when they were shot in temperatures near or below freezing.

Re22 gave me the best results I ever had in .280 Remington, but the potential for velocity variations made it a no-go for me. I never measured the velocity variation for myself, but I got my information from an impeccably reliable source who I trust implicitly.

 

[Guest]

The Hodgdon "Extreme" line of powders, as mentioned already, are temperature tolerant and so are the Ramshot powders. Alliant's Re15 and Re17 are temperature tolerant also.

Re22 is sensitive to temperature differences and so is Re19. I have heard of velocity losses of up to 200 fps with loads developed in the warmer months using Re22 when they were shot in temperatures near or below freezing.

Re22 gave me the best results I ever had in .280 Remington, but the potential for velocity variations made it a no-go for me. I never measured the velocity variation for myself,



but I got my information from an impeccably reliable source who I trust implicitly.

Who may that be?

 

[old #7]

I don't believe 200fps.
Maybe if you load in Arizona and shoot in Antartica

 

[Bruce Mc]

Mty experience has been that Reloder 22 looses velocity in the 70-95degree temperature. I've worked up loads in summer (95 plus temperatures) that were 3325 fps only to have them drop to 3200 or so at 70 degrees. I've never tried it but I am also of the thought that if you worked up a 3325 fps load at 70 degrees you'd have a problem if fired at 95 degrees. This is the reason I switched to H-1000. H-1000 has only varied around 25 fps over that temperature range.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Old 7, I've seen 200 fps difference in Wyoming.
100 degree in the summer
zero degrees in the winter.
One time we chronographed it was 40 below and snowing....but that kind of fits into your Artic scenerio!

 

[R Flowers]

Interesting thread, to be sure. Lots of opinions, most consistant with what we have heard before.

About three years ago I did a little study with my 25-06 just to see what cold ammo would do. I loaded up several powders with the 100 grain Nosler Partition. Half of each batch I kept at ambient temperature. The other half of each batch I put in my freezer for a couple of days.

I put the frozen ammo in an ice chest and headed to the range. Statistically, my sample size was not valid, only five of each sample, but the results were interesting. I shot the ambient sample of each load first, then let the barrel cool. The frozen ammo was removed from the ice chest and fired one at a time.

On two seperate days IMR 4831 lost 68 and 65 fps frozen as opposed to being at ambient temperature.

Reloader 22 lost only 34 fps when fired frozen as opposed to ambient.
(surprized?)

H 4350 actually gained 43 fps! How that happens I do not know.

H 4831SC also gained, this time 23 fps when fired frozen as opposed to being at ambient temperature (probably 70 degrees F).

This is not the first time I have seen H 4831 do this. I did a similar test years and years back with some surplus H 4831 and it also gained velocity when frozen (tested in my 300 Wby Magnum).

Not much of a study, but interesting.

 

[JD338]

R Flowers

Interesting data, thanks for posting this.

JD338

 

[jmad_81]

I might have to try that sometime next summer. That sounds like a guy could get some pretty important info on his loads doing that.

Thanks for posting that!

 

[Bruce Mc]

R Flowers, what was your ambient temperature?

 

[Larry in SD]

Interesting thread, to be sure. Lots of opinions, most consistant with what we have heard before.

About three years ago I did a little study with my 25-06 just to see what cold ammo would do. I loaded up several powders with the 100 grain Nosler Partition. Half of each batch I kept at ambient temperature. The other half of each batch I put in my freezer for a couple of days.

I put the frozen ammo in an ice chest and headed to the range. Statistically, my sample size was not valid, only five of each sample, but the results were interesting. I shot the ambient sample of each load first, then let the barrel cool. The frozen ammo was removed from the ice chest and fired one at a time.

On two seperate days IMR 4831 lost 68 and 65 fps frozen as opposed to being at ambient temperature.

Reloader 22 lost only 34 fps when fired frozen as opposed to ambient.
(surprized?)

H 4350 actually gained 43 fps! How that happens I do not know.

H 4831SC also gained, this time 23 fps when fired frozen as opposed to being at ambient temperature (probably 70 degrees F).

This is not the first time I have seen H 4831 do this. I did a similar test years and years back with some surplus H 4831 and it also gained velocity when frozen (tested in my 300 Wby Magnum).

Not much of a study, but interesting.

I have done a similar test, putting half of a batch in the freezer, but I put the other half of the batch on a cookie sheet on the front step in the sun (amibient temperature was about 70 degrees at the time if I remember right). I did my test with H-322, H-4198 and W-748 in a .223 Remington. The cases I had on the cookie sheet in the sun were actuall very warm to the touch (almost hot).

W-748 varied 200 FPS, H-4198 was a wash as it was a couple FPS different, however H-322 actually gained 40 FPS frozen over being hot.

All of this was prompted after a Prairie Dog Shoot in Central South Dakota in 107 degree temps. I had worked my load up with W-748 in 90 degree temps. Yes it was a maximum load but what I considered safe at that temperature. Out on the South Dakota Prairie I had to keep my ammo in a cooler to be able to shoot it without blowing holes in primers.

I have used nothing but Hodgdon Extreme Powders since.

Larry

 

[DrMike]

I can`t say that I`ve stored cartridges in a freezer, but I have fired many rounds when the temperature was -30 C (I refuse to shoot off the bench when it is colder than that). Whilst there is generally a loss of velocity with almost all powders, it is certainly not much (100 fps maximum) and has no discernible impact on group size. I would not worry about using RL22 at lower temperatures. In fact, I have hunted with loads developed with this powder on many occasions, and managed to take game (primarily mule deer and whitetails).

What is more worrisome is working up a load at these temperatures in some of the bigger cartridges (7.82 Lazzeroni Warbird, 7.21 Lazzeroni Firebird, etc.) as the loads using slower powders will often produce excessive pressures when the temperature exceeds 20 C.

 

[R Flowers]

Bruce, if you will reread my post you will find I listed the ambient temperature as probably 70 degrees.

I will have to do this some time when the ambient temp is a lot hotter, we get plenty of 100 plus days around here.

 

[Bruce Mc]

I think that putting ammo in the frig gives some good insight into what temperature will do, but you just have to shoot in the extremes to really get the whole enchilada. Cold barrel or extremely hot barrel and other environmental conditions are going to effect the results too. I guess you could put the rifle in the frig along with the ammo.

But I think all of our combined data indicates that Reloder 22 works very well inside the normal parameters we would expect in normal weather conditions. If you shoot when it is really hot (90 or higher) you need to take some precautions with your max loads so they're not too hot.

 

[RiverRider]

The Hodgdon "Extreme" line of powders, as mentioned already, are temperature tolerant and so are the Ramshot powders. Alliant's Re15 and Re17 are temperature tolerant also.

Re22 is sensitive to temperature differences and so is Re19. I have heard of velocity losses of up to 200 fps with loads developed in the warmer months using Re22 when they were shot in temperatures near or below freezing.

Re22 gave me the best results I ever had in .280 Remington, but the potential for velocity variations made it a no-go for me. I never measured the velocity variation for myself,



but I got my information from an impeccably reliable source who I trust implicitly.

Who may that be?

A personal friend who has been reloading and hunting for 50 years.

 

[coyotetrapper]

I can also tell by point of impact. I have a 22-250 uses h-380 and I hunt coyotes year round well that will change from 80 degree day to a 35 degree day right around 1.5" differance at 100 yrds. Imagine what that would be at 400 yards and the 35 degree day?

I have switched to the H series powders and see little differance no matter temps and have lower SD as well with these powders.

 

[old #7]

Old 7, I've seen 200 fps difference in Wyoming.
100 degree in the summer
zero degrees in the winter.
One time we chronographed it was 40 below and snowing....but that kind of fits into your Artic scenerio!

Yeah, I guess I am spoiled with mild weather.
The Oregon coast in the summer is about 65 to 70 degrees and in the winter we average 45 degrees