Nosler 175gr RDF's for .308

[rnsn@msn.com]

Hi all, New to the RDF's, I loaded some Brand new Hornady .308 match cases with 42grs of IMR 4064 for testing using The data for Custom Competition as told to me by a Nosler tech. Nosler recommends 2.800 OAL. As I was seating these VERY LONG MISSLES I heard a crunching and felt a little resistance that I don't feel with my other rifle loads (6.5 Creedmoor, 6mmBR ).Have any of you experienced this crunching with the 175gr RDF's ? I looked into the cases and they were pretty well filled up with the 4064. This is my 1st time with IMR 4064 and these VERY long bullets. I am below max load and there's no mention of this being a compressed load. Is this normal for these tips ? Thanks for any help offered. Nelly

 

[TackDriver284]

The 4064 has those longer granules than the Varget does, a drop tube will help minimize the case fill. Another thing is you may be seating a little too deep especially with the long RDF bullets. You don't have to use the 2.800 OAL, just measure how far you are from the lands with the bolt closed and seat bullets.020" off the lands and see if they fit your magazine, if they don't fit the magazine, then seat a little deeper until they fit. I always liked to start .010" off the lands.

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

The reason I seated these at 2.800 was just to see how the Nosler book data functioned as a base line with another rifle.( Savage Target action in a Bench rest stock, single feed , 28" Shilen Barrel, no magazine). I had already loaded some 175gr RDF's for another Savage .308 (20" barrel, set into an XLR Chassis- This one has a magazine but I single fed them anyway -too long for mag). I seated these at 0.015 off & 0.025 off with 43grs of Varget & they shot like crap at 100yds. This was my 1st experience with 4064 and my concern was for the "Crunch" at seating. You're suggesting a reduction in powder charge to facilitate a smoother & more appropriate seating length. This will also effect my accuracy & FPS using these tips. I'm trying to work up a decent combination for these RDF's but the VERY LONG LENGTH makes it tough.

 

[TackDriver284]

I did not say to reduce your 4064 powder charge, I mentioned to use a drop tube.

I have had crunching of powders with the 308 and 300 Magnum, did not affect my accuracy. Powder level was to the bottom of the necks.

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

Mark, Thanks for the help, but when I saw the powder level in the cases I tapped them gently to settle the 4064 down a bit & then seated them. My concern is really more safety than anything else. This has never happened using any other powder. I have good outcomes with 168gr SMK's & most other powders, Easy seating even with max loads. I don't have these problems with Berger Hybrids in my other calibers, & those are long as well, but not as long as these. I'm trying to like these but they're making it difficult with 4064.

 

[thatguySHM]

Safety issues arise when you shove the bullet into the lands. It sounds like you may load long for one rifle since you single fed for the Varget load, so why not seat out a bit further for the 4064? Usually the advice on this forum is pretty solid, haven't been lead astray yet.

As a side note, I'm loading 190 Nosler CC's to 2.895 with zero safety issues.

Are you concerned with the compressed load? Every loading manual I have has a section in the beginning stating that some loads will be beyond 100% fill, that is what is known as a compressed load. You will be safe if you follow the loads listed and stay within the books recipe..

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

I'm going to seat them out closer to the lands, the only reason I used Noslers book length 2.800 was to establish a baseline for Case O.A.L as recommended by them using IMR 4064 which I never used before. My surprise was the crunching when seating (never happened to me before).

 

[Guy Miner]

The "crunching" will get a fellow's attention won't it? :mrgreen:

First time I ran into that was with IMR 4350, back in the 1970's, and ya, it made me nervous. But the loads were "book" loads, and that's when I learned about compressed powder charges.

A longer drop tube helps considerably when trying to fit some powders into cases, much more than just shaking the case to settle the powder.

Regards, Guy

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

Guy, This is the response that the Nosler Customer Service Co-Coordinator just sent me.



Are you using a Nosler case? The test data was developed with Nosler Cases.



Thank you

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

I just received some clarity from Nosler:
The current Nosler data for .308 WIN 175gr bullets ''DOESN'T INCLUDE RDF'S" the load data listed is for the SHORTER CUSTOM COMPETITION BULLET.(when you call Nosler & ask them for load data for the RDF'S they tell you to use the "Custom Competition Data") This would explain the slightly compressed load using IMR 4064 & the LONGER RDF BULLET. Makes sense to me...

 

[TackDriver284]

I just received some clarity from Nosler:
The current Nosler data for .308 WIN 175gr bullets ''DOESN'T INCLUDE RDF'S" the load data listed is for the SHORTER CUSTOM COMPETITION BULLET.(when you call Nosler & ask them for load data for the RDF'S they tell you to use the "Custom Competition Data") This would explain the slightly compressed load using IMR 4064 & the LONGER RDF BULLET. Makes sense to me...

Are you using the OAL as 2.800" for the RDF's? If so, get a CC bullet and a RDF and put them side by side as a comparison and see which bullet is longer. I am sure the RDF is so long that you are seating it so deep to measure the same OAL as the CC bullets which measure 2.800", right? If you get a Hornady comparator tool or similar and measure the ogive of a CC loaded round that measures OAL 2.800" and measure the ogive of a RDF loaded round that measures 2.800", you will get a different ogive reading which puts your RDF's ogive far away from the lands due to the sleek design. You should seat your RDF's longer to about .010" off the lands and see if that minimizes your crunching of powder, of course use a long drop tube which will settle the granules in a more compact state than just tapping the side of the cases to settle it. I don't follow what Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Barnes, or any company's technician's advise on how long to seat my OAL rounds. They don't know my rifle's chamber lengths, they don't know my magazine length either. I use .010" off the lands for cup and core bullets and .050" off the lands for all copper bullets and work from there with common sense.

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

Mark, You're absolutely correct ! I did seat the 175gr RDF's at 2.800 C.O.A.L just like the book said, not knowing (nor did Nosler ever tell me when I called for initial load data for the RDF 175's that I should take into account the C C's are shorter !) and to adjust accordingly. I didn't use my Lyman Gen 6 scale to load the 5 test rounds, I did it the old fashioned way-small glass cup & a plastic spoon then weighed the charge on my other Lyman digital scale & funneled it right in. No one told me that IMR 4064 has long granules & needs different technique to load effectively . I don't have a drop tube for my Gen 6, it does have a small cap that will slow down the drop of powders like 4064, although I never used it.

 

[TackDriver284]

No one told me that IMR 4064 has long granules & needs different technique to load effectively . I don't have a drop tube for my Gen 6, it does have a small cap that will slow down the drop of powders like 4064, although I never used it.

I use a homemade straw and funnel in case I needed a drop tube. I put a little slit on the end so it fits right inside the case mouths of the .308 and it also fits snugly right around the mouths of the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

Outstanding Gizmo, I'm going to make one, thanks...

 

[TackDriver284]

Outstanding Gizmo, I'm going to make one, thanks...

Using a drop tube, fill a .308 case of 44 grains with 4064 , and fill another case without it and see the difference in case fill. :wink:

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

Roger that, I'll let you know as soon as I put it together...

 

[rnsn@msn.com]

Mark, IT'S A "MIRACLE" I made a drop tube using a straw and loaded up some 4064 just like before. This time I had plenty of room in the case (even for the 175gr RDF's). Great suggestion from you all.. I appreciate it.

Steve

 

[Guy Miner]

Cool!

Glad that worked out.

Guy

 

[TackDriver284]

Mark, IT'S A "MIRACLE" I made a drop tube using a straw and loaded up some 4064 just like before. This time I had plenty of room in the case (even for the 175gr RDF's). Great suggestion from you all.. I appreciate it.

Steve

Good to hear that it worked for you. Post some results with the RDF's.