Plus Pressure 358 Win Data

tjen · Feb 20, 2012

Could Nosler work and some Plus Pressure loads for the 358 Win for use in bolt rifles (BLR too)? Please keep in mind most have 20 to 22" barrels so use powders that will burn in their length we don't care what works in a 24" barrel. Bullets of interest are 200, 225, & 250grs. Some powder should be TAC, AA2230, H322, H4895, VV135, 748, & any new powder that works.

Nosler may just sell more .358" bullets if this data is avalible.

PJGunner · Feb 21, 2012

Gun writer John Barsness did some work with the .358 using several powders. Seems he got the best accuracy and velocity with TAC in his rifle. You might try and do a search over on 24 Hour campfire as IIRC, he did comment about that over there.
Paul B.

tjen · Feb 23, 2012

I read the article on loading the 358win to 338federal levels very impressive. I would like to see actual pressure data for bolt guns and the BLR. Even the 35 whelen needs this higher pressure data. So many people load higher than listed pressures because these cartridges are under loaded for many new rifles. And its done for the 45-70 in trapdoor, lever action, ruger falling block.

I did work up +P loads for my 336D 35 rem that should be 10% under the 30-30wins pressure. A 200gr CLRN @2188 fps using H4895. Western Powder did send their data for +P loads using TAC and it works great they now list 40.0grs of TAC with a 200gr @ 2100fps at std. pressure levels for the 35rem. My data matched theirs up to 40.0grs and after that my 18" barrel proved to short to get the 2250fps the 20" barrels get for +P loads.

Its nice to have actual pressure data from actual ballistic labs. I have their TAC data for the 358win but only for std pressures. They say AA2230 is their powder of choice for the 358win. I could not match the velocity of TAC or H4894 with their listed max charges.

PJGunner · Feb 23, 2012

"They say AA2230 is their powder of choice for the 358win. I could not match the velocity of TAC or H4894 with their listed max charges."

A few years back I did a trade for a Ruger M77 tang safety model in .358 Win. It came with the reloading dies and several boxes of reloads using AA2230. I shot them only because I knew the individual who loaded them and the fact that he was a conservative handloader. I don't even remember the charges but they were reasnably accurate and IIRC, the velocity was around 2250 FPS. Since I started messing with the .35 Whelen, I've kind of lost interest in the .358. maybe I'll get a can of TAC and see what the fuss is all about. :wink:
Paul B.

SJB358 · Feb 25, 2012

TJEN, I am using a charge of W748 in my 358 Win with 225 PT's. They run about 2450. I am sure there might be more in there, but overall, I am pretty happy with my speeds. I agree about some +P data for the Whelen though, it seems very underloaded in the books and even the speeds posted in a few manuals would never be accomplished with the charges they list. I know it is nice to work from the manuals, but with soooo many variables, I still work up slowly with the chrono.

Good luck, I have wanted to try TAC but I am happy with where I am at. It dumps deer with authority and I am sure it would hammer elk/moose as well...

PJGunner · Feb 26, 2012

SJB358":1za168d5 said:
TJEN, I am using a charge of W748 in my 358 Win with 225 PT's. They run about 2450. I am sure there might be more in there, but overall, I am pretty happy with my speeds. I agree about some +P data for the Whelen though, it seems very underloaded in the books and even the speeds posted in a few manuals would never be accomplished with the charges they list. I know it is nice to work from the manuals, but with soooo many variables, I still work up slowly with the chrono.

Good luck, I have wanted to try TAC but I am happy with where I am at. It dumps deer with authority and I am sure it would hammer elk/moose as well...

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the Whelen being underloaded. But then again so are the 7x57, 30-06 andthe .257 Robt. not really loaded to their full potential. I guess they have to take into consideration all those old 1903 Springfields, 1895 Winchesters, especially in 06 and I've seen and refused to buy one that had been rebored to the .35 Whelen, 93 and 95 Mausers, in 7x57 and rebarreled to the Roberts just to name a few. To be honest, those cartridges work just fine as is without raising their capability but we all want more from them, right?
Paul B.

SJB358 · Feb 26, 2012

Your right Paul. Pushing them a little, done easily is okay by me though. A little bit of common sense seems to work pretty well. Having a 35 Whelen, 358 and 7x57, it takes a little extra to get the FPS outta them they are capable of. I think the 7x57 could easily run the 160 Pt into the 2650-2700 range and still be easy on cases and the shooter. Plus, that bullet, at that speed should be about as nice a performer as anything.

Time will tell, hopefully my boys gets a chance to test it out!

CatskillCrawler · Feb 26, 2012

PJGunner":22ipr3tm said:
I agree wholeheartedly with you on the Whelen being underloaded. But then again so are the 7x57, 30-06 and the .257 Robt. not really loaded to their full potential. Paul B.

I feel these four excellent cartridges all have a stealth factor which is becoming more apparent to many. Imagine that, the 30-06 is even better than what we thought it was!

I don't feel the need to push the 358Win too much beyond max as it is pretty sweet as it is. If you want more, get a Whelen or a Norma. The 35Rem, 358Win, Whelen/350RM, and the 358 Norma all provide excellence within their tier. IMO, accept them as they are.

tjen · Feb 27, 2012

The 358 win can be loaded to the same pressure as the 338fed. and its just 90% of what a properly loaded 35 whelen can do. As for the 358win there are no old guns to worry about just the savage and win levers/auto after that its new bolt actions and the super strong BLR. Why not have +P data?

I have a 35 whelen and there is no manual that will get Noslers listed velocities for their ammo. And those fast speeds people list for their whelen are over book max they just work up slow and carful looking for pressure signs.

My point is if it is fine for the 45-70 it will be equily fine for the 358win/whelen.

I get 2430fps from H4895 & TAC with the 225gr PT & GK. And 2480fps with H322 & H4895 with the 200gr Hornady spire point. I am more interested in getting 2500-2550 from the 225gr to get expansion at a solid 300 yards. Even at 2500fps the 250 PT (or 2600/225gr) in the whelen it will expand good beyond what distance I would shoot.

CatskillCrawler · Feb 27, 2012

Don't get me wrong, I have worked up loads with the 358W which exceed book too. I have two loads pushing the 225SGK in the mid-2400's. There's no way I'm going to get 2500 out of them from the BLR. A Hawkeye is another story with its longer mag.

I'm not so sure that the editors will invest the time to work up loads for a cartridge which has very little mainstream attention. Noslers 6th Edition's loads, for most of the mainstream cartridges, looks very familiar to their previous editions. It looks ike most of the new work is done on new cartridges with the occasional, "let's re-vamp the data for the re-newed flavor of the decade". With 7x57 and 45-70 being the most recent due to such a widespread capability of arms these cartridges are found in and re-newed interest they both are enjoying.