Pretty cool Whelen Story

[SJB358]

I was reading a post on 24HCF about the 400 Whelen. Saw one of the fellers that posted about a 35 Whelen and saw he was in AFG. I sent him a PM and we were writing back and forth a bit. Anyhow, it seems like the folks over there did a very good thing for him and man, what a rifle. That Marlin XL7 looks very nice all dressed up.. Makes my 35 Whelen look like a wicked old walking stick!

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... ost6571054

Anyhow, I pass through his AO a little, so I am hoping to be able to link up with him on one of my trips. He has to be a good guy if he shoots the Whelen!

 

[DrMike]

That is a great story, Scotty. Good for the fellows at the campfire; it was a wonderful gesture. Here, however, we just spend your money. :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

That is a great story, Scotty. Good for the fellows at the campfire; it was a wonderful gesture. Here, however, we just spend your money. :mrgreen:

Don't I know it!

However, you all have saved me money a few times. I think it all comes out in the wash...

 

[RiverRider]

We'll all just have to work a little harder, then. :twisted:

 

[DrMike]

We'll all just have to work a little harder, then. :twisted:

We have our work cut out for us, RR. :grin:

 

[sask boy]

Mike maybe we could start a payment plan for Scotty :wink:
It might take years but we are kinda fond of him.
But he is right! 99% of the guys that shoot 35 Whelens are good well adjusted gentleman :mrgreen:

Blessings,
Dan

 

[FOTIS]

Yup it is cool. I was following his story.

 

[JD338]

That is very cool.
I think a 400 Whelen would be awesome. :wink:

JD338

 

[SJB358]

I think a 400 Whelen would be awesome. :wink:

JD338

Don't you start too Jim! :lol:

Besides, aren't you due for a new rifle. You must have the roof done by now, right?

 

[FOTIS]

411 Hawk by z-hat!


The most interesting Hawk cartridge to me is the .411. The ~338 and .358 are surely more versatile, and the .375 offers enough bullet weight for the biggest of North American game in the thickest of cover, but the .411 is an iconoclast. It challenges the notion that .40-bore wildcats are not practical on a .30-06 case. For years shooters have criticized the .400 Whelen because it has such an insignificant shoulder: "Not enough bulge to maintain proper headspace."

Rifles chambered in .411 Hawk have .400-inch bores with grooves cut to .410. But the Hawk case shows only .0786-inch body taper. Its shoulder measures .454 inch in diameter, compared to the '06's .441 shoulder. Bob Fulton points out that even a slight bump in case diameter will serve as an adequate stop because "you've got one tube sliding into another. If all of a sudden you make the inside tube a few thouandths bigger than the hole in the outside tube, it won't fit. Period. You won't move it at all without substantial force.

Bob also insists that a 17-degree, 15 minute slope works just fine. He sees no need for the sharp Acldey slope. "A gentle shoulder makes for smooth feeding," he says. Bob admits that with a .375 or .411-inch bullet, the .30-06 case has so little shoulder that its angle has almost no effect on feeding, but he adds that small shoulders give you negligible increase in case capacity when you blow them out. Fred Zeglin concurs. Both men concede that before fireforming, the small, gentle shoulder of a .411 Hawk can allow the case to be forced forward incrementally. That's why Fred prefers Mauser-style actions claw extractor.

Fred forms .411 cases by running a .424 expander into .30-06 brass, then neck sizing with the .411 die and fireforming. Two firings are often necessary. Incidentally, necks on the four big-bore Hawk cartridges are a bit shorter than bullet diameter. They seem to offer plenty of grip.

Here are some of the .411 Hawk loads I tested with one of Fred's custom rifles, a Parker-Hale Mauser wearing a 26inch barrel and a 39x Leupold scope. like the .358 I used, it belongs to Graydon Snapp.

300 gr. Hawk BLC-2 60.0 gr. 2244 feet per second411 Hawk vs 30-06.

300 gr. Hawk H-4895 63.0 gr. 2516 fps

350 gr. Swift IMR-4064 61.0 gr. 2366 fps

350 gr. Swift IMR-4064 61.0 gr. 2366 fps

Bob Fulton owns a Ruger No.1 with a 27-inch barrel chambered in .411. He likes to shoot 270-grain cast bullets with these charges: 38.0 grains of IMR-4198, 1,830 fps; 42.0 grains of IMR-3031, 1,890 fps; 44.0 grains of IMR3031 (magnum primer), 1,910 fps; 42.0 grains of H-4895 (magnum primer), 1620 fps; and 46.0 grains of H-4895(magnum primer), 1,850. He also loads the 270grain Hawk over 62.0 grains of H4895 at 2,610 ips or the same bullet over 64.0 grains of H4895 for 2,690 fps and the 300-grain Hawk over 62.0 grains of H4895 at 2,567 fps.

Bob reports no leading or copper fouling in his Douglas barrel after lapping. He reported light, uniform copper fouling before that operation. Several jacketed-bullet groups have since measured under one minute of angle. The cast-bullet loads are for prairie dogs and milk jugs at long range with iron sights! Bob installed a military Krag rear sight on the No.1 and a globe front sight of his own making. It features a crosswire insert that offers a precise aiming point.

What makes the .411 Hawk so appealing to me is its efficiency. From a .30-06 case it can drive a 300-grain bullet as fast as the .375 H&H Magnum! Granted, sectional density is lower for the .411, but the bullet also makes a bigger entry hole. At the ranges big-bore rifles are commonly used, ballistic coefficient hardly matters. Not only would the .411 suffice for big, surly bears in alder patches, it seems an excellent choice for heavy African antelopes and even buffalo. Its slender, rimless torso feeds smoothly, and you'll get a high-capacity magazine without having to hire an expensive smith to make your rifle look pregnant. Recoil is noticeably less than that of rounds offering equal muzzle energy. Powder charge as well as bullet weight contributes to felt recoil, and the .411 Hawk operates on little fuel.

 

[longrangehunter]

But he is right! 99% of the guys that shoot 35 Whelens are good well adjusted gentleman :mrgreen:

Blessings,
Dan

I had know idea having owned three different 35 Whelen's would have such a following. I can remember the day I showed up to buy the first Remington's chambered in the 35 Whelen. Why I walked out with a pump rifle in that caliber I have know idea..... I suppose it was because having owned a 870 Wingmaster would make fallow up shots that much faster? Only years later buy a custom shop mountain rifle and then make one on a FN '98 in a High Tech stock from Bansner that has been with me for years.

Nice to know I'd be considered a gentleman.... amongst the fine gentlemen around here!

 

[nvbroncrider]

Stop Fotis. I don't need to be reading this stuff. It may give me reason for another project. Although he's exactly right if you got a .375 or .400 your not looking at it to shoot 500 or 1000 yards your looking at it to stop something.

 

[SJB358]

That 411 Hawk does look pretty awesome. Those bigger bores on the Whelen case are pretty awesome performers when you look at the amount of powder used.

 

[onesonek]

That all gives me so many ideas, or rather a resurgence of a few old one's anyhow.