QL Data on 7mag 150g

[Ralt71]

Hello, I don't want to be a burden to anyone with QL access but when you have time can I get some help obtaining some QL data for my Mag?

Tikka T3X - 24" barrel
150g Berger Classic Hunter PN: 28571
These are the powders I would like to test; (If anyone has experience with others that are better for this style bullet, I'm all ears as well)

N160 - N165 - H1000

I'm really wanting my case capacity in the 95% range for a better chance at consistency, and I'm struggling to find a powder I can get there with (Peterson Brass on these). I'm looking at various different burn rates right now, 160and H4350 are hand in hand, N165 is in the middle and H1000 is up there. If I still had retumbo I would consider that. I ruled out IMR4350 because of it's burn rate and these solid bullets didn't seem like a good match to me. These are the powders I'm considering as of now

 

[Guy Miner]

Sadly discontinued (but maybe not forever?) IMR 8133 did a fine job for me with a couple of different 7mm Rem Mags using Hornady's 150 gr ELD-X.


That was from my son's 24" Bergara rifle.

From my 26" Ruger Number One it produced 3289 fps! I think it was just shy of 3200 fps from my son's 24" Bergara.

Since IMR 8133 isn't available at this time - take a hard look at Ramshot Grand. I've seen great results with it in several "overbore" cartridges.

Regards, Guy

 

[Ralt71]

Sadly discontinued (but maybe not forever?) IMR 8133 did a fine job for me with a couple of different 7mm Rem Mags using Hornady's 150 gr ELD-X.

View attachment 28546
That was from my son's 24" Bergara rifle.

From my 26" Ruger Number One it produced 3289 fps! I think it was just shy of 3200 fps from my son's 24" Bergara.

Since IMR 8133 isn't available at this time - take a hard look at Ramshot Grand. I've seen great results with it in several "overbore" cartridges.

Regards, Guy

Thank you for the detail and sharing your load results. That's a group that I would be happy with any day of the week!

I actually bought Grand on Thursday.. but for all the wrong reasons (broke a rule of mine in that I wouldn't use spherical powder anymore too haha). I know it has a big golden star on the front that says temp stable, but what has been your experience with temp swings and Grand's performance?

 

[Guy Miner]

Thank you for the detail and sharing your load results. That's a group that I would be happy with any day of the week!

I actually bought Grand on Thursday.. but for all the wrong reasons (broke a rule of mine in that I wouldn't use spherical powder anymore too haha). I know it has a big golden star on the front that says temp stable, but what has been your experience with temp swings and Grand's performance?

I haven't used it enough to get good data on temp stability.

We only had a bit at the shop, did some loading and shooting with it and called it good. I was interested in how it would work with my 25-06 and 7mm Rem Mag, and maybe my 257 Weatherby, so recently I bought 8 pounds of it. That ought to be enough to let me know how it performs. BTW, it does just fine in the 25-06...

But I can't tell you anything about it in various temperatures.

Regards, Guy

 

[Ralt71]

I haven't used it enough to get good data on temp stability.

We only had a bit at the shop, did some loading and shooting with it and called it good. I was interested in how it would work with my 25-06 and 7mm Rem Mag, and maybe my 257 Weatherby, so recently I bought 8 pounds of it. That ought to be enough to let me know how it performs. BTW, it does just fine in the 25-06...

But I can't tell you anything about it in various temperatures.

Regards, Guy

My nemesis, the 25-06 Vanguard haha

I'm going to load some rounds with Grand once we get at least back into double digits and stay there for a day or two. My game plan is load it in the 20's and dial it in.. make a handful of that dialed in load then shoot that round in various different temps and see what I get.

 

[Joe C.]

Haven’t tried Ramshot Grand, but bought two 8 pounders of Staball HD. Both are St Marks powders newly released. I’m going to be working with it this spring in a 270 WSM, and a 7mm Rem Mag. Load data suggests it will give good velocity and hopefully be consistent. I just cracked the seal on the first jug.

From what I’ve seen, Grand leans on the velocities we were getting with RL26. That’s a very good thing.
I’ll get to the range once the temps get back to the high 30’s. There are a few on here that have used Grand recently.

 

[Guy Miner]

Recently loaded 25-06 100 gr TTSX's to 3350 fps via Grand.

Flat shooting. Accurate. Funny, with all that velocity I used it to take an Axis deer at about 50 yards. My 30-30 would have been more appropriate.

Guy

 

[Ralt71]

My Pap used to call those confidence distances haha

 

[Ralt71]

@DrMike would you have time to provide me with some QL data on these? I would very much appreciate that

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet             : .284, 150, Berger Class Hunt #28571 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 75.433 grain H2O = 4.898 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N165 *C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   92    63.00   2748    2514   44453  11383     97.4    1.353
-09.0   93    63.70   2778    2570   45940  11499     97.7    1.332
-08.0   94    64.40   2808    2627   47478  11610     98.1    1.311
-07.0   95    65.10   2838    2683   49067  11716     98.4    1.291
-06.0   96    65.80   2869    2741   50710  11817     98.7    1.271
-05.0   97    66.50   2899    2799   52408  11913     98.9    1.252  ! Near Maximum !
-04.0   98    67.20   2929    2857   54164  12004     99.2    1.233  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   99    67.90   2959    2916   55979  12090     99.4    1.214  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  100    68.60   2989    2975   57857  12170     99.5    1.196  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  101    69.30   3019    3035   59800  12244     99.7    1.178  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  102    70.00   3048    3095   61811  12313     99.8    1.160  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0  103    70.70   3078    3156   63892  12375     99.9    1.143  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  104    71.40   3108    3216   66046  12432    100.0    1.126  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  105    72.10   3137    3278   68276  12482    100.0    1.109  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  106    72.80   3166    3339   70587  12526    100.0    1.093  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  107    73.50   3196    3401   72981  12568    100.0    1.077  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    102    70.00   3115    3232   67691  12085    100.0    1.116  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    102    70.00   2968    2934   55977  12385     98.5    1.212  ! Near Maximum !

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet             : .284, 150, Berger Class Hunt #28571 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 75.433 grain H2O = 4.898 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N160 *C

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   79    56.25   2739    2498   44517  10827     99.7    1.354
-09.0   80    56.88   2765    2547   45854  10909     99.8    1.335
-08.0   81    57.50   2792    2596   47227  10985     99.9    1.316
-07.0   82    58.13   2818    2645   48638  11058    100.0    1.299
-06.0   83    58.75   2844    2694   50087  11125    100.0    1.281
-05.0   84    59.38   2870    2744   51576  11188    100.0    1.263
-04.0   85    60.00   2896    2794   53107  11249    100.0    1.246  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   85    60.63   2922    2844   54679  11309    100.0    1.229  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   86    61.25   2947    2893   56294  11368    100.0    1.213  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   87    61.88   2973    2944   57954  11426    100.0    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   88    62.50   2998    2994   59661  11484    100.0    1.181  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   89    63.13   3023    3044   61415  11541    100.0    1.166  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   90    63.75   3048    3095   63217  11598    100.0    1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0   91    64.38   3073    3146   65071  11654    100.0    1.135  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0   92    65.00   3098    3196   66976  11709    100.0    1.121  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0   92    65.63   3123    3248   68935  11763    100.0    1.106  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     88    62.50   3049    3096   64781  11287    100.0    1.139  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     88    62.50   2935    2870   54521  11715    100.0    1.229  ! Near Maximum !

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet             : .284, 150, Berger Class Hunt #28571 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 75.433 grain H2O = 4.898 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H1000 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   97    66.56   2764    2545   41864  12328     94.7    1.363
-09.0   98    67.29   2799    2610   43381  12485     95.3    1.340
-08.0   99    68.03   2834    2676   44961  12635     95.8    1.317
-07.0  100    68.77   2870    2743   46604  12779     96.4    1.294
-06.0  101    69.51   2905    2811   48314  12916     96.9    1.272
-05.0  102    70.25   2940    2880   50096  13046     97.3    1.251
-04.0  103    70.99   2976    2950   51953  13169     97.8    1.229  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  104    71.73   3011    3020   53889  13284     98.1    1.209  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  105    72.47   3047    3092   55906  13391     98.5    1.188  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  106    73.21   3082    3164   58010  13491     98.8    1.168  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  108    73.95   3118    3237   60209  13581     99.1    1.148  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  109    74.69   3153    3311   62504  13664     99.3    1.128  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  110    75.43   3189    3386   64901  13737     99.6    1.109  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  111    76.17   3224    3462   67407  13800     99.7    1.090  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  112    76.91   3259    3538   70028  13855     99.9    1.072  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  113    77.65   3294    3615   72772  13899     99.9    1.053  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    73.95   3206    3422   66686  13399    100.0    1.099  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    73.95   3013    3024   54203  13514     96.7    1.204  ! Near Maximum !

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet             : .284, 150, Berger Class Hunt #28571 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 75.433 grain H2O = 4.898 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

26 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 76 *C               104.5     78.2     5.07    3236   100.0    61000   14821   1.146  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 *C                 107.9     79.1     5.13    3219    96.0    61000   15813   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 *C              109.7     82.7     5.36    3203    96.4    61000   15608   1.153  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 80 *C               107.0     80.7     5.23    3199    98.4    61000   15237   1.160  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568 *C*T               107.4     78.0     5.05    3183    97.9    61000   15025   1.159  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C               95.9     71.7     4.65    3171   100.0    61000   13757   1.171  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C                     106.9     74.4     4.82    3160    99.3    61000   14380   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30                        106.9     74.4     4.82    3160    99.3    61000   14380   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517                101.7     75.5     4.89    3159    99.4    61000   14136   1.150  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              104.8     72.4     4.69    3159   100.0    61000   13407   1.153  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12                  101.5     75.4     4.88    3158    99.4    61000   14109   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218                        110.0     81.5     5.28    3157    95.0    57950   15841   1.163  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C                        96.9     70.3     4.56    3155   100.0    61000   13938   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C                  98.7     70.1     4.55    3155    98.6    61000   14354   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                        97.6     69.7     4.52    3148    99.0    61000   13932   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           103.2     69.7     4.52    3148    99.0    61000   13932   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                     99.0     73.2     4.74    3145    97.6    61000   14457   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2225                        110.0     76.9     4.98    3144   100.0    57687   14105   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo                    110.0     76.9     4.98    3144   100.0    57687   14105   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot LRT                        110.0     82.5     5.34    3136    90.0    60719   14955   1.147  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213                         98.7     69.4     4.50    3135    98.9    61000   13804   1.143  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214                        102.6     74.1     4.80    3133    99.2    61000   13651   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 *C*T               103.4     73.8     4.78    3133    98.8    61000   14197   1.177  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217                        107.9     74.2     4.81    3130    99.2    61000   13611   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 *T                   107.9     74.2     4.81    3130    99.2    61000   13611   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C               99.0     69.6     4.51    3129    99.6    61000   13775   1.162  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 *C                     99.0     69.6     4.51    3129    99.6    61000   13775   1.162  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation        99.0     69.6     4.51    3129    99.6    61000   13775   1.162  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15                        101.7     69.9     4.53    3128    99.6    61000   13793   1.163  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     101.7     69.9     4.53    3128    99.6    61000   13793   1.163  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 *C                90.7     67.2     4.35    3128   100.0    61000   12969   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                      99.0     75.0     4.86    3112    99.9    61000   13192   1.158  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT *C ~approximation    102.3     72.5     4.70    3101    97.4    61000   13635   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RL16 TZ *C *T                91.6     62.1     4.02    3096   100.0    61000   12324   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T            91.6     62.1     4.02    3096   100.0    61000   12324   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209                         95.6     66.1     4.28    3093    99.5    61000   13089   1.149  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 *C                110.0     81.5     5.28    3091    89.9    61000   14117   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C               96.0     66.8     4.33    3089    99.5    61000   13145   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905                       96.3     66.5     4.31    3087    99.6    61000   13049   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T           100.5     68.4     4.43    3085   100.0    61000   12279   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP36 ZT *C *T               100.5     68.4     4.43    3085   100.0    61000   12279   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation          96.8     67.3     4.36    3083    99.5    61000   13054   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                 92.4     66.3     4.30    3083   100.0    61000   12768   1.163  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555 *C*T                97.4     66.4     4.30    3080   100.0    61000   12474   1.189  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      91.7     65.8     4.27    3078   100.0    61000   12654   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                   90.2     65.7     4.26    3074   100.0    61000   12419   1.178  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T                   101.3     68.5     4.44    3069    98.4    61000   13028   1.153  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                 97.4     68.5     4.44    3069    98.4    61000   13028   1.153  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation           94.2     65.5     4.24    3068    99.4    61000   12835   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C                        91.2     65.5     4.24    3068    99.4    61000   12835   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4                         94.2     65.5     4.24    3068    99.4    61000   12835   1.156  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C                        91.2     62.7     4.07    3055   100.0    61000   12121   1.170  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Ralt71]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the data!

 

[Ralt71]

Interesting day of shooting… I’m getting close but have a lot to figure out if I want to use this load for my shoot in a month.
Based on the data Dr Mike grabbed from QL I decided to test N160 and H1000 because I have those on hand and I have a lot of both. I did a handful of rounds in N160 and worked up to 62.5gr. I never did get pressure, but I did notice my shoulder’s had heat signature on them, even blueing. I can’t say I’ve ever seen that before. Maybe it has to do with being 18F out? I tried to get a pic of it and attach it here but it’s not as pronounced in the picture as it is in person. I noticed I’m roughly 80-100 fps less than the load data. I need to look into this, my neck tension may be a little off with these bullets. I’m going to see if I have a thou or two smaller and try that next time. Either way, 62.5 was decent so I loaded three of them up and took my time shooting, 3 minute cool down between each shot. Amazing group, all be it only 3 shots. Not enough to call it good and something is still off with my charge here. SD and ES aren’t where they should be.

I loaded up 5 rounds of H1000, one foul round at 70.5 and two at 71, then two at 71.5. I shot my foul round at my N160 target then shot my 4 test loads at the same bull. Both of my 71’s were touch and slightly higher and to the right both 71.5’s were touching. Much more speed out of this powder.

I may play with H1000 more and also may grab N560 or something along those lines to test. The Vit powder just runs so much cleaner, I really like it.

Was nice to get out today since we actually had double digit temps on the positive side.

 

[Ralt71]

I forgot to post the H1000 stuff. I may play with some charts and see what difference the extra speed will really make in regard to wind

.

 

[longrangehunter]

I can’t tell from your picture of your brass, but was that to show unburnt powder around the necks of your brass, and why you said Vihtavuori burns cleaner?

 

[longrangehunter]

I’d try to find the most accurate load possible that is repeatable vs velocity!

Learning to shoot well centers around that factor. Even if it means slower speeds, consistency will prevail in you seeing that you got the wind wrong, and/or your fundamentals aren’t up to par.

Even a 7mm-08 will get the job done if the rifle/load are working properly out to 600 or even 800 yards or more….. Even a 2550-2650 fps load with a high BC bullet.

Learning to shoot is all fundamentals and reading the wind, and knowing how to make your fallow up shots count for the previous mistakes and why it imperative to have quality equipment and control of your shots without wondering is it you or the rifle load causing the problem?

The 62.5 VV N160 group looks good. Go test it at distance and see how well it performs. You want something that will consistently hit a 6” target at 600 yards. That’s all you need to train for becoming proficient in the field of hunting if you train in field positions learning how to build a base, (steady) and steadfast in your time management as well as reading what the wind is doing.

That involves looking at what the trees are doing along the flight path, and some basic knowledge about thermals during the day, and how land objects can effect the trajectory of the wind along the route of the wind’s direction.

The best shooters are the ones that can see the wind without seeing it. The terrain will of course be a factor, unless it’s in the wide open over canyons or up/down angles away from the contours of the surrounding landscape.

Yes, you’ll need to walk before you can run, but you’ll want to eliminate any barriers with your equipment first to achieve your end goals.