Ql on this load?

[muzz]

280AI
140 AccuBond
61.5 gr h4831
Coal 3418
H20 72 gr

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 65.599 grain H2O = 4.259 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.418 inch = 86.82 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   84    49.20   2361    1732   28485   8686     82.8    1.547
-18.0   86    50.43   2422    1823   30403   9008     84.3    1.508
-16.0   88    51.66   2483    1917   32456   9326     85.7    1.470
-14.0   90    52.89   2546    2015   34653   9639     87.2    1.432
-12.0   92    54.12   2608    2115   37005   9945     88.5    1.396
-10.0   94    55.35   2671    2218   39529  10243     89.8    1.351
-08.0   96    56.58   2735    2325   42236  10533     91.0    1.309
-06.0   98    57.81   2799    2435   45142  10812     92.2    1.269
-04.0  100    59.04   2863    2548   48265  11080     93.3    1.230
-02.0  103    60.27   2927    2664   51626  11336     94.3    1.192
+00.0  105    61.50   2992    2782   55248  11577     95.3    1.156
+02.0  107    62.73   3057    2904   59154  11803     96.1    1.120  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0  109    63.96   3122    3029   63375  12013     96.9    1.086  ! Near Maximum !
+06.0  111    65.19   3187    3157   67937  12204     97.6    1.053  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  113    66.42   3252    3287   72885  12377     98.2    1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  115    67.65   3317    3421   78221  12529     98.8    0.990  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    105    61.50   3153    3090   66276  11711     99.3    1.069  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    105    61.50   2788    2416   45207  10889     87.4    1.266

Cartridge          : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet             : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 65.599 grain H2O = 4.259 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.418 inch = 86.82 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   87    51.36   2468    1894   31942   9249     85.4    1.479
-18.0   90    52.64   2533    1995   34201   9577     86.9    1.440
-16.0   92    53.93   2599    2099   36629   9898     88.3    1.401
-14.0   94    55.21   2664    2207   39237  10210     89.7    1.356
-12.0   96    56.50   2731    2318   42044  10514     90.9    1.312
-10.0   98    57.78   2797    2432   45069  10806     92.2    1.270
-08.0  101    59.06   2864    2550   48328  11086     93.3    1.229
-06.0  103    60.35   2931    2671   51844  11352     94.4    1.190
-04.0  105    61.63   2999    2795   55639  11602     95.4    1.152  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  107    62.92   3066    2923   59770  11836     96.3    1.115  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  109    64.20   3134    3054   64237  12052     97.1    1.080  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  111    65.48   3202    3188   69087  12248     97.8    1.045  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  114    66.77   3270    3325   74354  12422     98.4    1.012  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  116    68.05   3339    3465   80060  12574     98.9    0.980  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  118    69.34   3407    3609   86280  12702     99.4    0.949  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  120    70.62   3475    3755   93076  12804     99.7    0.919  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    109    64.20   3289    3363   76996  11983     99.9    1.001  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    109    64.20   2931    2671   52388  11519     90.2    1.182

 

[MAinAR]

For comparison run the same load with IMR 4831...... in the 280AI I see it be very stable and give more speed than I can get from H4831.

 

[muzz]

If I had some I would, but it's not as temp stable as h4831. I shot the load this morning and got a group of .346"
Didn't take my chronograph. Not the speed I was hoping for according to quick load but accuracy is what's important. How is that load I'm shooting as far as the node? I have no clue where or how to find the nodes.

 

[muzz]

What did I do piss everyone off?

 

[Dwh7271]

Muzz,
Didn't make me mad at all.
I don't have access to my computer until later today(this is my phone) I'll be happy to check then if that's ok?

 

[muzz]

Curious as to where this load is on nodes. Can you tell by burn time if your on a node?

 

[Dwh7271]

I can't but when I get back I'll run it w barrel time and let you know

 

[Dwh7271]

By OBT you're just a hair below the node at 1228. No big deal if it shoots well use it.
Here;s what I came up with

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 67.611 grain H2O = 4.390 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.418 inch = 86.82 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.272% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.7 99 59.83 2858 2539 47296 11235 93.3 1.245
-02.4 99 60.00 2866 2554 47717 11271 93.5 1.240
-02.2 99 60.16 2875 2569 48141 11306 93.6 1.235
-01.9 100 60.33 2883 2584 48570 11341 93.7 1.229
-01.6 100 60.50 2892 2600 49003 11376 93.9 1.224
-01.4 100 60.66 2900 2615 49440 11411 94.0 1.219
-01.1 100 60.83 2909 2630 49876 11445 94.2 1.214
-00.8 101 61.00 2917 2646 50323 11480 94.3 1.209
-00.5 101 61.17 2926 2661 50777 11514 94.4 1.205
-00.3 101 61.33 2935 2677 51232 11547 94.5 1.200
+00.0 102 61.50 2943 2693 51689 11581 94.7 1.195
+00.3 102 61.67 2952 2708 52153 11614 94.8 1.190
+00.5 102 61.83 2960 2724 52622 11647 94.9 1.185
+00.8 102 62.00 2969 2740 53093 11680 95.1 1.180
+01.1 103 62.17 2977 2756 53571 11712 95.2 1.175
+01.4 103 62.34 2986 2772 54052 11744 95.3 1.170

 

[Dwh7271]

Another node should be around 1102. Case fill may be an issue, don't know though,

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 67.611 grain H2O = 4.390 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.418 inch = 86.82 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.26% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.6 103 62.53 2996 2790 54619 11781 95.4 1.165
-02.3 104 62.70 3005 2806 55111 11813 95.6 1.160
-02.1 104 62.86 3013 2822 55608 11845 95.7 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 104 63.03 3022 2838 56109 11876 95.8 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 104 63.20 3030 2855 56616 11906 95.9 1.146 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 105 63.36 3039 2871 57130 11937 96.0 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 105 63.53 3047 2887 57648 11967 96.1 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 105 63.70 3056 2903 58164 11997 96.2 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
-00.5 105 63.87 3065 2920 58691 12027 96.3 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
-00.3 106 64.03 3073 2936 59230 12056 96.5 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 64.20 3082 2953 59769 12085 96.6 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
+00.3 106 64.37 3090 2969 60314 12114 96.7 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
+00.5 107 64.53 3099 2986 60862 12142 96.8 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
+00.8 107 64.70 3108 3002 61419 12170 96.9 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 107 64.87 3116 3019 61980 12198 97.0 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
+01.3 107 65.04 3125 3036 62546 12225 97.1 1.095 ! Near Maximum !

 

[muzz]

Where would that put me at grains of powder? I don't understand the node thing or what to look for.

 

[Dwh7271]

Right around 64.8. It's showing 61-62k pressure but if you work up to it it might work for you. Don't know, it's kind of hard to walk away from the groups you got with the present load.

 

[muzz]

I agree. Can you tell by burn time the node your on? Or where you should be?
Thank you for your help

 

[Dwh7271]

Not a problem.
No on the burn time. That's going to vary a bit based on powder, blend, coating etc.
I try to run some loads over the chrono, see where they "should be" according to Quickload and then make some adjustments to QL based on what the actual loads and chrono are showing me.
Then I try to find a sweet spot (node) using that info and using barrel time.

 

[muzz]

I see,
Would you mind doing a ql on rl 23 with 150 ablr 280 ai 24" barrel for me? Point me in a " node" direction for that load. I would like to be able to get around 3100 fps. I was getting better speeds and groups with my plain 280 then I am getting with this ackley.

 

[Dwh7271]

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler AccuBond LR 58734
Useable Case Capaci: 65.284 grain H2O = 4.239 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-23

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.263% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.6 105 61.92 3001 3000 57740 11350 100.0 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
-02.4 105 62.09 3009 3016 58289 11363 100.0 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 106 62.25 3017 3031 58842 11376 100.0 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 106 62.42 3024 3046 59401 11388 100.0 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 106 62.59 3032 3062 59965 11401 100.0 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 107 62.75 3040 3078 60534 11413 100.0 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 107 62.92 3047 3093 61108 11425 100.0 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 107 63.09 3055 3109 61688 11437 100.0 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
-00.5 107 63.26 3063 3124 62273 11450 100.0 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
-00.3 108 63.42 3070 3140 62865 11462 100.0 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 108 63.59 3078 3156 63462 11474 100.0 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
+00.3 108 63.76 3086 3171 64065 11486 100.0 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
+00.5 109 63.92 3093 3187 64674 11498 100.0 1.124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.8 109 64.09 3101 3203 65290 11509 100.0 1.119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 109 64.26 3109 3218 65911 11521 100.0 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.3 109 64.43 3116 3234 66539 11533 100.0 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 108 63.59 3138 3281 70717 11246 100.0 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 108 63.59 3003 3003 56335 11751 100.0 1.187 ! Near Maximum !

I just do not know how the RL 23 burn rate is in relation to QL. IF..the burn is close to what is projected, the load around the max (63.76) is right on a node. My thoughts would be start below that and work up looking for any indications of issues. If I had to guess, the next node is going to be in the 2970 fps range or so.
Bear in mind, without burn rates verified by chrono, those a just a SWAG.

 

[muzz]

Thank you again! Just looking for a powder to push the 150's in the 3050fps range.