QL Request 338 RUM

[zcoop13]

I am looking at 210 TTSX with RL26 and IMR 7977.

Nosler Brass (not sure on h20 capacity)
Fed 215GM
3.736 oal (0.10 off lands)
26" bbl

I did load (and shoot over magnetospeed) some 7977, so i'm interested to see what the predictions look like in comparison.

Thank you,



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[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .338 Rem Ultra Mag
Bullet             : .338, 210, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 30428
Useable Case Capaci: 98.995 grain H2O = 6.428 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.736 inch = 94.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-26

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   88    86.40   2836    3749   43336  10902     99.9    1.439
-09.0   89    87.36   2867    3833   44969  10956    100.0    1.415
-08.0   90    88.32   2899    3918   46670  11002    100.0    1.392
-07.0   91    89.28   2930    4003   48442  11044    100.0    1.369
-06.0   92    90.24   2961    4088   50291  11086    100.0    1.346
-05.0   93    91.20   2992    4174   52208  11127    100.0    1.324
-04.0   94    92.16   3022    4260   54192  11166    100.0    1.303
-03.0   95    93.12   3053    4346   56246  11205    100.0    1.282  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   96    94.08   3083    4432   58377  11243    100.0    1.261  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   97    95.04   3113    4519   60591  11280    100.0    1.240  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   98    96.00   3143    4606   62889  11316    100.0    1.221  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   99    96.96   3173    4694   65276  11351    100.0    1.201  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  100    97.92   3202    4782   67757  11385    100.0    1.182  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  101    98.88   3232    4870   70335  11418    100.0    1.163  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  102    99.84   3261    4959   73015  11449    100.0    1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  103   100.80   3290    5048   75802  11480    100.0    1.127  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     98    96.00   3264    4966   78462  10873    100.0    1.121  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     98    96.00   2955    4072   48317  11864     99.4    1.358

Cartridge          : .338 Rem Ultra Mag
Bullet             : .338, 210, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 30428
Useable Case Capaci: 98.995 grain H2O = 6.428 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.736 inch = 94.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7977 Enduron

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   94    84.87   2623    3208   43993   9020     87.4    1.429
-09.0   95    85.81   2653    3282   45493   9145     88.0    1.407
-08.0   96    86.76   2684    3358   47047   9268     88.7    1.385
-07.0   97    87.70   2714    3435   48659   9389     89.3    1.364
-06.0   98    88.64   2745    3513   50330   9508     89.8    1.343
-05.0   99    89.59   2775    3592   52064   9625     90.4    1.322
-04.0  100    90.53   2806    3672   53863   9740     91.0    1.302
-03.0  101    91.47   2837    3753   55731   9852     91.5    1.282  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  102    92.41   2868    3835   57670   9962     92.1    1.263  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  103    93.36   2899    3918   59683  10069     92.6    1.243  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  104    94.30   2930    4003   61776  10173     93.1    1.224  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  106    95.24   2961    4088   63950  10274     93.6    1.206  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  107    96.19   2992    4175   66211  10372     94.1    1.187  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  108    97.13   3023    4262   68564  10467     94.5    1.169  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  109    98.07   3055    4351   71012  10559     95.0    1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  110    99.02   3086    4441   73560  10647     95.4    1.134  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    94.30   3078    4417   72241  10427     97.9    1.141  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    94.30   2748    3521   51660   9546     85.5    1.330

Cartridge          : .338 Rem Ultra Mag
Bullet             : .338, 210, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 30428
Useable Case Capaci: 98.995 grain H2O = 6.428 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.736 inch = 94.89 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63250 psi, or 436 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

19 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570                    110.0    105.8     6.86    3198    97.3    63250   13130   1.201  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26                  98.0     96.1     6.23    3148   100.0    63250   11321   1.218  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30                        109.2     99.6     6.45    3138    99.8    63250   11870   1.215  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2                        109.2     99.6     6.45    3138    99.8    63250   11870   1.215  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    100.9     94.1     6.10    3137    99.3    63250   11936   1.205  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                           99.1     94.4     6.11    3135   100.0    63250   11495   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517                103.7    101.0     6.54    3134    99.8    63250   11635   1.199  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12                  103.5    100.8     6.53    3133    99.8    63250   11611   1.200  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                 107.0     97.1     6.29    3132   100.0    63250   11026   1.202  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70                   96.2     93.5     6.06    3129   100.0    63250   11148   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                        99.7     93.5     6.06    3127    99.5    63250   11544   1.194  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           105.4     93.5     6.06    3127    99.5    63250   11544   1.194  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    101.1     98.1     6.36    3126    98.5    63250   12018   1.213  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33                 110.0    108.9     7.06    3121    96.9    59458   12782   1.237  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213                        100.8     93.0     6.03    3114    99.5    63250   11466   1.192  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 101.2     93.3     6.05    3110    99.9    63250   11413   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation       101.2     93.3     6.05    3110    99.9    63250   11413   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15                       101.2     93.3     6.05    3110    99.9    63250   11413   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     103.9     93.8     6.08    3109    99.9    63250   11430   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15                        103.9     93.8     6.08    3109    99.9    63250   11430   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214                        104.6     99.1     6.42    3105    99.7    63250   11248   1.192  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217                        109.9     99.2     6.43    3102    99.7    63250   11213   1.192  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000                      109.9     99.2     6.43    3102    99.7    63250   11213   1.192  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     100.9    100.3     6.50    3084   100.0    63250   10806   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905                      102.5     92.8     6.01    3080    99.2    63250   11215   1.210  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation       104.4     97.1     6.29    3078    98.2    63250   11359   1.197  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 80                  110.0    108.9     7.06    3077    96.9    56592   12632   1.262  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209                         97.7     88.7     5.75    3073    99.8    63250   10879   1.198  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                  98.2     89.6     5.81    3070    99.9    63250   10927   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218                        110.0    106.9     6.93    3064    95.4    56003   12961   1.255  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation          99.0     90.3     5.85    3063    99.9    63250   10847   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                 103.5     92.4     5.99    3063   100.0    63250   10239   1.221  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                 94.6     89.1     5.77    3062   100.0    63250   10573   1.213  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                 90.8     88.3     5.72    3059   100.0    63250   10499   1.213  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      93.8     88.4     5.73    3058   100.0    63250   10484   1.213  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2225                        110.0    100.9     6.54    3054   100.0    55559   11496   1.267  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo                    110.0    100.9     6.54    3054   100.0    55559   11496   1.267  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  95.3     84.7     5.49    3053   100.0    63250   10084   1.219  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                   92.3     88.3     5.72    3053   100.0    63250   10270   1.227  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                           93.3     87.9     5.70    3049    99.8    63250   10679   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4                         96.3     87.9     5.70    3049    99.8    63250   10679   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation           96.3     87.9     5.70    3049    99.8    63250   10679   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                    99.5     91.8     5.95    3047    99.0    63250   10848   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831                      103.5     91.8     5.95    3047    99.0    63250   10848   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     90.8     84.7     5.49    3036   100.0    63250   10196   1.222  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                           93.4     84.4     5.47    3035   100.0    63250   10069   1.219  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation          93.5     84.4     5.47    3035   100.0    63250   10066   1.219  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365                        95.2     86.4     5.60    3031   100.0    63250    9744   1.227  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                       92.5     84.5     5.47    3029   100.0    63250   10018   1.236  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385                        98.4     90.8     5.88    3028   100.0    63250   10380   1.227  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904                       97.3     87.5     5.67    3022    99.4    63250   10468   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation        94.0     87.1     5.64    3021   100.0    63250   10221   1.219  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780              96.9     93.2     6.04    3019    99.8    63250   10368   1.214  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            98.0     85.6     5.55    3014   100.0    63250    9836   1.228  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron                   100.8     89.5     5.80    3014    99.1    63250   10536   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165                    103.5     93.5     6.06    3011   100.0    63250   10139   1.219  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071                         107.1     92.5     5.99    3008   100.0    63250   10012   1.243  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100                      101.3     92.5     5.99    3008   100.0    63250   10012   1.243  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                          93.4     84.3     5.46    3008   100.0    63250   10056   1.224  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160                    103.8     90.8     5.88    3002    99.4    63250   10255   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41                   110.0    106.9     6.93    2998    90.3    59063   11552   1.239  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7                          91.5     81.9     5.31    2994   100.0    63250    9972   1.216  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                       91.5     81.9     5.31    2994   100.0    63250    9972   1.216  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D100                         109.3    107.3     6.95    2992    92.2    63250   10892   1.219  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361                        96.2     93.5     6.06    2986    99.0    63250   10250   1.220  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 95.9     84.7     5.49    2986   100.0    63250    9287   1.221  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                          92.4     82.5     5.35    2983   100.0    63250    9679   1.223  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217                          110.0     98.9     6.41    2969    99.6    49519   11756   1.350
Hodgdon H870                       110.0    103.7     6.72    2954    96.0    49946   12104   1.341
IMR 7977 Enduron                   105.2     95.0     6.15    2951    93.5    63250   10243   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170                    110.0     99.3     6.43    2941    94.4    57573   10928   1.281  ! Near Maximum !

 

[zcoop13]

DrMike,

Thank you, much appreciated.

Here is what i got from 4 charge weights. (7977)

98gr (4)
3204avg
sd10
es20

99
3258
sd9
es19

99.5
3264
sd6
es11

100 - very faint ejector ring shadow.
3281
sd7
es14

A friend loaded RL26 at 95.5, and got 3273 avg on the magnetospeed (5 shots). Same components, but 3.60 oal.

Actual velocity seems to significantly higher than predicted. On both accounts.

I did feel i may have stated a little hot, but from what i could find 7977, seemed to track almost grain for grain with H1000 on charge weights (hodgdon data).

I would not have guessed these loads were approaching 80k+.

Will the "actual" data adjust the QL predictions?

i.e. QL predicted 3055 fps at 98 gr (71012 psi...)

actual 3204 fps at 98 gr.

The friends RL26 load was also 100fps+ faster.

pretty big delta on velocity. or is that normal?

Thanks again.


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[zcoop13]

Oh, and to be clear, the Rl26 load was shot in a different (his) gun.


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[Dwh7271]

Check your PMs.

I would be very interested in what your case capacity is as that will change the run, perhaps significantly.
Also the temperature you were shooting at.(ended a sentence with a preposition, my grammar teacher is turning in her grave :grin: )
Freebore or leade will change the pressure curve also.
I wouldn't count on 7977 matching H1000 fwiw. They may be close but batches are going to vary somewhat and newer powders tend to take a while to end up at a burn rate that is predictable (greater sample size)
Lastly, your friend's run and results are going to be different than yours due to all the different variables between rifles, chambers, etc.
Just some thoughts. Sorry if it sounded lecturing.

 

[zcoop13]

It was last saturday i believe it was around 50.

What's the process for getting capacity? Weigh spent case, fill with water, weigh again? (I guess i answered my own question there)

Thanks for the help. I'll see if i can sneak away to get capacity this weekend!




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[DrMike]

It was last saturday i believe it was around 50.

What's the process for getting capacity? Weigh spent case, fill with water, weigh again? (I guess i answered my own question there)

Thanks for the help. I'll see if i can sneak away to get capacity this weekend!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Weigh once fired brass and zero your scale. Using deoxygenated water (let it set uncovered overnight), fill the case until you have a convex meniscus. The weight of the water is taken to be the case overfill volume of your brass. This is the weight that allows calculation.

And, yes, Dewey, grammarians everywhere were gritting their teeth. :mrgreen:

 

[zcoop13]

Haha, Thanks!

I went through the process, closely, prior to reading this. So, oxygenated water..

Weighed 12 cases (the 7977 cases). Avg 288.37 gr.

Picked 3 cases that weighed 288.4.

Filled and re-weighed those 3.

avg 400.33

net capacity = 113.96.

I'll re-do in the AM i guess.

Capacity is going up!



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[zcoop13]

Oops, make that 111.96 with oxygenated water.

113.3 with deoxygenated this AM.

Brass is 2.740 - 2.742 after 1 firing. All of the new Nosler brass is "short" at 2.736 ish to start with. At least the 200 i have were.


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[zcoop13]

I was interested to see what some 1x Rem factory loaded brass looked like.

Measured 10, 273.4 gr.
Measured 3 loaded w/h20, 387.4
Net cap = 114.
They were also in the 2.740 - 2.742 range.

So, Nosler brass SD was like 0.4 grains (for 12).

Rem was SD 1.1 for 10.

Nosler was 15 gr (5.5%)heavier on average, with 0.7 gr (0.6%) LESS capacity.

Guessing it's a little thicker in the web area.


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[Dwh7271]

Cartridge          : .338 Rem Ultra Mag
Bullet             : .338, 210, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 30428
Useable Case Capaci: 99.871 grain H2O = 6.485 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.600 inch = 91.44 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-26 ?

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   77    76.02   2577    3098   30319  10292     97.5    1.639
-18.0   79    77.92   2644    3259   32526  10541     98.4    1.596
-16.0   81    79.82   2709    3423   34906  10764     99.0    1.553
-14.0   83    81.72   2775    3591   37476  10958     99.5    1.511
-12.0   84    83.62   2840    3760   40249  11123     99.9    1.461
-10.0   86    85.52   2904    3932   43247  11257    100.0    1.414
-08.0   88    87.42   2967    4106   46487  11366    100.0    1.368
-06.0   90    89.32   3030    4281   49960  11471    100.0    1.324
-04.0   92    91.22   3092    4458   53670  11572    100.0    1.282
-02.0   94    93.12   3153    4636   57652  11670    100.0    1.242  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   96    95.02   3214    4815   61929  11764    100.0    1.203  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   98    96.92   3274    4997   66527  11853    100.0    1.166  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  100    98.82   3333    5181   71475  11939    100.0    1.130  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  102   100.72   3392    5366   76806  12020    100.0    1.096  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  104   102.62   3451    5555   82556  12096    100.0    1.063  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  106   104.52   3510    5745   88768  12168    100.0    1.031  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     96    95.02   3333    5181   76961  11317    100.0    1.106  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     96    95.02   3027    4273   47633  12349     99.6    1.338