QL Request 35 Whelen

truck driver · Jan 9, 2015

I got my order for the 225gr Sierra GK to day and need some QLs for RL15, Varget,IMR4064 and IMR 8208 XBR.

22" barrel and 62K psi.

Thanks for your help guys.

DrMike · Jan 9, 2015

Code:

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   83    48.40   2180    2375   31447   6972     89.8    1.417
-18.0   85    49.61   2234    2493   33553   7188     91.0    1.379
-16.0   87    50.82   2287    2614   35791   7398     92.1    1.341
-14.0   89    52.03   2341    2737   38179   7601     93.1    1.302
-12.0   91    53.24   2394    2864   40727   7796     94.1    1.264
-10.0   93    54.45   2447    2993   43447   7983     95.0    1.227
-08.0   96    55.66   2501    3125   46351   8161     95.8    1.191
-06.0   98    56.87   2554    3259   49454   8329     96.6    1.156
-04.0  100    58.08   2607    3396   52770   8487     97.3    1.123  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  102    59.29   2660    3536   56319   8633     97.9    1.091  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  104    60.50   2713    3678   60119   8768     98.4    1.060  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  106    61.71   2766    3823   64191   8890     98.9    1.030  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  108    62.92   2819    3969   68561   8999     99.3    1.001  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  110    64.13   2871    4118   73256   9095     99.6    0.973  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  112    65.34   2923    4269   78306   9176     99.8    0.946  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  114    66.55   2975    4423   83748   9242     99.9    0.920  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    60.50   2832    4007   71879   8535    100.0    0.985  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    60.50   2551    3251   48786   8568     92.8    1.158

Code:

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   85    48.00   2164    2340   32217   6652     89.9    1.396
-18.0   87    49.20   2216    2453   34342   6858     91.1    1.358
-16.0   89    50.40   2267    2568   36605   7058     92.1    1.320
-14.0   92    51.60   2319    2687   39020   7253     93.1    1.284
-12.0   94    52.80   2371    2807   41596   7441     94.1    1.246
-10.0   96    54.00   2422    2931   44347   7622     94.9    1.210
-08.0   98    55.20   2474    3057   47267   7795     95.7    1.176
-06.0  100    56.40   2525    3186   50366   7960     96.5    1.143
-04.0  102    57.60   2577    3318   53675   8116     97.2    1.111  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  104    58.80   2628    3451   57214   8262     97.8    1.080  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  106    60.00   2680    3588   61003   8398     98.3    1.050  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  109    61.20   2731    3726   65062   8523     98.8    1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  111    62.40   2782    3867   69417   8637     99.1    0.993  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  113    63.60   2833    4010   74095   8738     99.5    0.967  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  115    64.80   2884    4156   79129   8826     99.7    0.940  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  117    66.00   2935    4304   84552   8902     99.9    0.915  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    60.00   2790    3889   71794   8235    100.0    0.983  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    60.00   2531    3201   50460   8183     92.9    1.138

DrMike · Jan 9, 2015

Code:

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    46.08   2184    2383   33079   6646     93.4    1.385
-18.0   81    47.23   2234    2494   35181   6831     94.4    1.351
-16.0   83    48.38   2284    2606   37410   7009     95.2    1.318
-14.0   85    49.54   2334    2721   39774   7180     96.0    1.280
-12.0   87    50.69   2383    2837   42282   7343     96.8    1.245
-10.0   89    51.84   2432    2956   44942   7497     97.4    1.210
-08.0   91    52.99   2481    3076   47766   7643     98.0    1.177
-06.0   93    54.14   2530    3199   50763   7779     98.5    1.145
-04.0   95    55.30   2579    3322   53947   7906     98.9    1.115  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    56.45   2627    3448   57330   8022     99.3    1.085  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    57.60   2675    3575   60928   8127     99.6    1.056  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  101    58.75   2723    3704   64757   8221     99.8    1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    59.90   2770    3834   68836   8304     99.9    1.002  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    61.06   2817    3965   73183   8374    100.0    0.977  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    62.21   2864    4097   77822   8434    100.0    0.952  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    63.36   2910    4231   82779   8490    100.0    0.928  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    57.60   2770    3834   71543   7829    100.0    0.990  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    57.60   2539    3220   50525   8107     95.7    1.144

Code:

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   85    47.04   2152    2313   31912   6564     90.2    1.410
-18.0   88    48.22   2203    2425   34008   6764     91.3    1.372
-16.0   90    49.39   2254    2539   36225   6957     92.3    1.334
-14.0   92    50.57   2306    2656   38588   7145     93.3    1.297
-12.0   94    51.74   2357    2775   41105   7326     94.3    1.259
-10.0   96    52.92   2408    2898   43788   7499     95.1    1.223
-08.0   98    54.10   2459    3022   46649   7664     95.9    1.188
-06.0  100    55.27   2511    3149   49702   7821     96.6    1.154
-04.0  103    56.45   2562    3278   52962   7968     97.3    1.122  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  105    57.62   2613    3410   56445   8106     97.9    1.091  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  107    58.80   2663    3544   60170   8232     98.4    1.061  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  109    59.98   2714    3680   64157   8348     98.9    1.032  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  111    61.15   2765    3818   68431   8453     99.2    1.004  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  113    62.33   2815    3959   73017   8545     99.5    0.976  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  115    63.50   2865    4101   77945   8624     99.8    0.950  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  117    64.68   2915    4245   83249   8690     99.9    0.925  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    107    58.80   2773    3842   71055   8033    100.0    0.991  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    107    58.80   2514    3158   49616   8052     93.1    1.152

truck driver · Jan 9, 2015

Thanks DrMike, Now I have a starting point.
Not much difference between the two powders. It'll be interesting to see which shoots best.
I found an old post when looking for loads that you had played with IMR 8208 XBR and had a load of 56.0grs for 2650 FPS. Did you ever do anything else with this powder?

JD338 · Jan 9, 2015

RL 15 is a great choice for 225 gr and 250 gr bullets in the 35 Whelen giving great speed and fantastic accuracy.

JD338

SJB358 · Jan 9, 2015

JD338":2zl2sevg said:
RL 15 is a great choice for 225 gr and 250 gr bullets in the 35 Whelen giving great speed and fantastic accuracy.

JD338

X2!!!

I've never found a reason to use anything else. I am sure others would be excellent but as you work up to Noslers book speeds I've seen a few Whelen's really come into accuracy. Recoil can be stiffer with lighter rifle but the accuracy is there.

truck driver · Jan 9, 2015

Since you guys introduced me to QL it has opened my eyes to how different brands of bullets of the same weight effect pressure even with in the same brand. The Nosler 225 AB and PT are proof you can't interchange powder charges. Also an increase of 1.3 grains of powder difference in loads can be disastrous. Pressure can jump rapidly.

DrMike · Jan 9, 2015

I have done nothing with the IMR8208XBR load, Rodger. I do like having options, and especially in light of the paucity of RL15 in this past year.

truck driver · Jan 9, 2015

The psi ratings in QL have me wondering if they are CUP or LUP? The Industry standard pressures are CUP.
Does anyone know?

DrMike · Jan 9, 2015

Piezo CIP

truck driver · Jan 9, 2015

OK after looking that up I see where the chart under Piezo list Samii and CIP.
Take the 35 Whelen the Piezo rating under the Samii list is 62(62000) and under the CIP is 58(58000). Is the pressure column in QL adjusted to Samii or CIP?
What I'm looking at is 4(4000) difference between the two. If the psi rating for a load is 62k CIP does that make it 66K Samii?
Yes I'm confused here.

Elkman · Jan 9, 2015

I have some test rounds with RL-15 loaded up with 250's for my Whelen. I have never been serious in load development for it, and I hope to this year.

SJB358 · Jan 10, 2015

Elkman":1je2l4aa said:
I have some test rounds with RL-15 loaded up with 250's for my Whelen. I have never been serious in load development for it, and I hope to this year.

As much as I'd like to see you carry that old Whelen it would have to be a Christmas miracle for it to occur :grin:

truck driver · Jan 10, 2015

SJB358":3cw8mdc8 said:
Elkman":3cw8mdc8 said:

I have some test rounds with RL-15 loaded up with 250's for my Whelen. I have never been serious in load development for it, and I hope to this year.

Click to expand...

As much as I'd like to see you carry that old Whelen it would have to be a Christmas miracle for it to occur :grin:

He will carry his if you will carry your's. :roll: :lol:

DrMike · Jan 10, 2015

truck driver":3kzinrcx said:
If the psi rating for a load is 62k CIP does that make it 66K Samii?
Yes I'm confused here.

62k psi is 62kpsi. SAAMI or CIP is simply a reference to standards. Pressure can be set for any cartridge maximum. The default pressure in QL for the 35 Whelen is 4000 BAR (58,015 psi). When I run a projection, I adjust the pressure maximum to allow a closer approximation of what I seek. Consequently, I usually set the pressure max to 62k psi.

truck driver · Jan 10, 2015

DrMike":kzer2py7 said:
truck driver":kzer2py7 said:

If the psi rating for a load is 62k CIP does that make it 66K Samii?
Yes I'm confused here.

Click to expand...

62k psi is 62kpsi. SAAMI or CIP is simply a reference to standards. Pressure can be set for any cartridge maximum. The default pressure in QL for the 35 Whelen is 4000 BAR (58,015 psi). When I run a projection, I adjust the pressure maximum to allow a closer approximation of what I seek. Consequently, I usually set the pressure max to 62k psi.

Thanks DrMike, not having my own QL program and understanding how it worked I think is what caused the confusion. Looking at the different ways to measure pressure. When I first started reloading pressure was measured in LUPs then went to Cups and now it's CIP/Piezo. I didn't keep up with it since I was too busy providing for the family and only used book loading tables. Thank goodness for you guys that did.

SJB358 · Jan 11, 2015

Here is what QL looks like with a 62K PSI and 225 Sierra and RL17..

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 53.61 2242 2511 29610 6865 89.7 1.493
-18.0 90 54.95 2302 2648 31719 7098 91.2 1.450
-16.0 92 56.29 2363 2790 33993 7321 92.6 1.408
-14.0 94 57.63 2424 2936 36445 7532 93.9 1.367
-12.0 96 58.97 2486 3086 39096 7730 95.0 1.324
-10.0 99 60.31 2547 3241 41962 7914 96.1 1.281
-08.0 101 61.65 2609 3400 45069 8082 97.0 1.239
-06.0 103 62.99 2670 3563 48438 8233 97.9 1.200
-04.0 105 64.33 2732 3730 52092 8366 98.5 1.161
-02.0 107 65.67 2794 3900 56088 8480 99.1 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 67.01 2855 4074 60440 8573 99.5 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 112 68.35 2917 4251 65202 8645 99.8 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 69.69 2978 4431 70423 8695 100.0 1.019 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 116 71.03 3039 4614 76166 8722 100.0 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 118 72.37 3099 4800 82498 8740 100.0 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 121 73.71 3160 4989 89512 8753 100.0 0.925 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 67.01 2991 4469 73502 8154 100.0 1.006 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 67.01 2657 3527 49075 8474 93.9 1.196

Pretty impressive stuff.. Be fun to see how much 17 you could get in the case.

truck driver · Jan 11, 2015

Dang!!!! need to set that shoulder forward to take advantage of that powder AI range.

Scotty!!!! you got smoke coming out of my ears. M70 35 Whelen AI JES rebore and chamber Ooooooh!

nvbroncrider · Jan 11, 2015

I think around 64 grains. That's full on my 338.

SJB358 · Jan 11, 2015

It would be a cool set up. That's for sure.

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