Quickload .243 winchester Sierra 85 HP and 85 TSX
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mjcmichigan
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- Dec 26, 2016
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preacher":22fedqwf said:Any Joy?
I have a QL report on that bullet. I don’t think my barrel is 24”. Think it’s 22”
Might be this evening before I can find and upload. I don’t have TSX data.
I did kill 6 deer with that Sierra HP. 5 of the 6 did not have exit wounds. Most dropped.
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mjcmichigan
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2016
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mjcmichigan
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2016
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second try... viewtopic.php?t=37806
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mjcmichigan
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2016
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Can some one run the TSX?
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mjcmichigan
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2016
- 2,403
- 364
Can some one run the TSX?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Curious, Preacher, so a question if allowed.
I know of no others locally shooting the 243 Win so I have a question.
What is your case capacity on fired, neck sized brass?
After reading the thread in the link above I was going...........whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
Trying to figure out just how bad a freak my chamber is, lol. While I realize commercially produced chambers vary and capacities between brass mfgs do as well, I'm seeing some ODD (to me) things
reloading mine.
A suggestion, and only that, on loading the 243 Win.
While others may tip-toe around Superformance and I don't believe it's even in Quick load......I've not found anything else (YET) to touch it with 85 grain pills.
Some may want to compare to the similar burn rate powders but THE CAN I HAVE (buying another) is WAYYYYYYYYYYY denser than the VMD listed on the Lee VMD site.
The REASON some "slow" powders are "too slow" is the fact that one just cannot get enough in the case.
That is NOT the case with the SPFRM I have. Hand in hand THIS is where I THINK (not a single spec of statistics other than my own available it seems) one MUST WATCH their minimum load and go by what THIS powder tells you is 100 percent and go from there.
The AMOUNT of a starting load (80-85 percent? it seems to vary)..........blew my mind.
While FEW will agree I only wish to make one point. Take from it what each of you will.....or not.
SAAMI clearly states that ALL THREE (but there is more) of the pressure levels are from the "service" loads sent them to test AND.......ALL can and will be in boxes, on shelves, for sale by differing percentages.
The MAP is the LOWEST of them all.
With that statement in mind........riddle me this. There is but two choices.
1. Either the MAP is NOT a pressure level where anything above which is "dangerous" and should not be used.
OR
2. The MAP IS the "upper limit for safe loading".........and each and every commercial cartridge company is marketing dangerous loads.
While what MY idea of the upper limit is not on the table......I do wish to point out ONE OTHER point CLEARLY made within the SAAMI report.
Copied and pasted:
Maximum Probable Lot Mean (MPLM) - The MPLM is calculated by adding two standard errors to
the Maximum Average Pressure in order to assure there is a
97.5% probability that the Maximum Probable Lot Mean pressure is not exceeded.
(NOT the MAP)
There is much more in the report I feel clearly adds to the misconception of "maximum pressure" but.....I'll just stay with this.
Trying to have a decent adult conversation on the subject elsewhere resulted in being called names.........but I will stand my ground, supported by what I read.
Anyway. Good luck with the loads
God Bless
Steve
I know of no others locally shooting the 243 Win so I have a question.
What is your case capacity on fired, neck sized brass?
After reading the thread in the link above I was going...........whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
Trying to figure out just how bad a freak my chamber is, lol. While I realize commercially produced chambers vary and capacities between brass mfgs do as well, I'm seeing some ODD (to me) things
reloading mine.
A suggestion, and only that, on loading the 243 Win.
While others may tip-toe around Superformance and I don't believe it's even in Quick load......I've not found anything else (YET) to touch it with 85 grain pills.
Some may want to compare to the similar burn rate powders but THE CAN I HAVE (buying another) is WAYYYYYYYYYYY denser than the VMD listed on the Lee VMD site.
The REASON some "slow" powders are "too slow" is the fact that one just cannot get enough in the case.
That is NOT the case with the SPFRM I have. Hand in hand THIS is where I THINK (not a single spec of statistics other than my own available it seems) one MUST WATCH their minimum load and go by what THIS powder tells you is 100 percent and go from there.
The AMOUNT of a starting load (80-85 percent? it seems to vary)..........blew my mind.
While FEW will agree I only wish to make one point. Take from it what each of you will.....or not.
SAAMI clearly states that ALL THREE (but there is more) of the pressure levels are from the "service" loads sent them to test AND.......ALL can and will be in boxes, on shelves, for sale by differing percentages.
The MAP is the LOWEST of them all.
With that statement in mind........riddle me this. There is but two choices.
1. Either the MAP is NOT a pressure level where anything above which is "dangerous" and should not be used.
OR
2. The MAP IS the "upper limit for safe loading".........and each and every commercial cartridge company is marketing dangerous loads.
While what MY idea of the upper limit is not on the table......I do wish to point out ONE OTHER point CLEARLY made within the SAAMI report.
Copied and pasted:
Maximum Probable Lot Mean (MPLM) - The MPLM is calculated by adding two standard errors to
the Maximum Average Pressure in order to assure there is a
97.5% probability that the Maximum Probable Lot Mean pressure is not exceeded.
(NOT the MAP)
There is much more in the report I feel clearly adds to the misconception of "maximum pressure" but.....I'll just stay with this.
Trying to have a decent adult conversation on the subject elsewhere resulted in being called names.........but I will stand my ground, supported by what I read.
Anyway. Good luck with the loads
God Bless
Steve
- Thread starter
- #11
Hello Steve! I can't say on the capacity of the fired brass as I don't have the rifle yet. Its on layaway. Its also been many, many years since I loaded for a 243. I have used Superformance powder in other cartridges, again, been awhile, and it was good stuff. I too like to use the FCD, especially with the slick monos. I like the "guideline" of the QL that gives the "guesstimate pressure" for each charge, or at a set limit, say, I might ask for 64K in .270 data or, the 60K of the .243. I then back off a couple grains and work up. I don't put a lot of stock in the primer, but I do look at it "in conjunction" with how the bolt lift felt, and marks on the case head, i.e. ejector button bright spot or "swipe". I will then take 3-4 and load them with same charge and see if I get (a) the same accuracy and (b) several reloads.
I know for a fact that I have loaded/used many, many Ackley Improved rounds that "had to be" on up there pressure wise. But I never had an issue. I have also fired some Weatherby factory ammo in a couple of their calibers that I could not resize! They like them hot! So, I don't know the answer to most of your question, but I have never got in trouble using any published Load Data Max. Not internet, but by the big bullet companies, ha. I'm also speaking of factory rifle barrels, not custom, hand chambered barrels. I don't think a man can "ruin" his rifle until he gets up past 82K or more. Sure, he can seize it up long before that, but a good smith can usually get the thing out. And usually, a primer will pop out long before it seizes. I don't measure my case head and I don't anneal. I have just never had the need too. Hope that helps and btw, anyone that would give you grief for asking a question is just being a "toot". A pretty weak one at that! Have a ball pard!
I know for a fact that I have loaded/used many, many Ackley Improved rounds that "had to be" on up there pressure wise. But I never had an issue. I have also fired some Weatherby factory ammo in a couple of their calibers that I could not resize! They like them hot! So, I don't know the answer to most of your question, but I have never got in trouble using any published Load Data Max. Not internet, but by the big bullet companies, ha. I'm also speaking of factory rifle barrels, not custom, hand chambered barrels. I don't think a man can "ruin" his rifle until he gets up past 82K or more. Sure, he can seize it up long before that, but a good smith can usually get the thing out. And usually, a primer will pop out long before it seizes. I don't measure my case head and I don't anneal. I have just never had the need too. Hope that helps and btw, anyone that would give you grief for asking a question is just being a "toot". A pretty weak one at that!
Have a ball pard!- Thread starter
- #12
Barnes load data uses a 24" barrel, but lists several loads that over 3300fps with the 85 TSX. Superformance is one as is R17 and Hunter. So a 22" barrel should come in over 3250 or close, assuming good accuracy of course. I used the older 85 xbt starting out at 2900 from a little wildcat. I killed some big critters with that thing too! AND, it made everyone around me "nervous", ha. The little 6mm/222 magnum (6x47) is super "cute", and it just doesn't "look" deadly. I am constantly "amazed" how other people think I should live/use/have/need, ha. I just smile at them...
Super. You should be all set. Let me know if you find any "super loads", LOL.
The whole primer thing is a bit of a quandary ....however, I DO know that there is just ONE single thing that manufacturers are allowed do to "proof loads" that is different from the service loads.
I forget the exact terminology but it was to use whatever means they wished to secure the primer in the case for such loads.
To me........that speaks volumes, but I'm sure it is more about BLOWING primers rather than the flattening, rounding etc.
I get yelled a lot locally when someone asks about my loads......."YOU'RE OVER PRESSURE!!" Yeah.....bull's testicles. LOL
Getting a dozen loads minimum out of cases without hiccups of any kind....says otherwise to me.
This chamber I got........holy moly. I've never seen a chamber SO oversized. I'm about to "redneck" it into a wildcat just because doing so will NOT be more work than trying to get fired brass into a RCBS FL sizing die! While I neck size only 90 percent of the time (to each their own), sooner or later I need to resize them and it's a BEAR. Even with my buddies rock chucker you have to really lean on fully imperial waxed cases. The fired brass is big and the dies are NOT what I'd call "right" diameter wise.
It HAS to be awful hard on the cases. I do NOT like it ....at all. Heck with it......I'm going to revamp the chamber into "something" HAHA.
I figure the worst thing that can happen is I will just need to rebarrel it and chamber it for something else so.....the sky is the limit as far as my imagination goes. Another month or so should tell the tale.
Kind of a "improve it or totally wreck it" maneuver LOL.
God Bless
Steve
The whole primer thing is a bit of a quandary ....however, I DO know that there is just ONE single thing that manufacturers are allowed do to "proof loads" that is different from the service loads.
I forget the exact terminology but it was to use whatever means they wished to secure the primer in the case for such loads.
To me........that speaks volumes, but I'm sure it is more about BLOWING primers rather than the flattening, rounding etc.
I get yelled a lot locally when someone asks about my loads......."YOU'RE OVER PRESSURE!!" Yeah.....bull's testicles. LOL
Getting a dozen loads minimum out of cases without hiccups of any kind....says otherwise to me.
This chamber I got........holy moly. I've never seen a chamber SO oversized. I'm about to "redneck" it into a wildcat just because doing so will NOT be more work than trying to get fired brass into a RCBS FL sizing die! While I neck size only 90 percent of the time (to each their own), sooner or later I need to resize them and it's a BEAR. Even with my buddies rock chucker you have to really lean on fully imperial waxed cases. The fired brass is big and the dies are NOT what I'd call "right" diameter wise.
It HAS to be awful hard on the cases. I do NOT like it ....at all. Heck with it......I'm going to revamp the chamber into "something" HAHA.
I figure the worst thing that can happen is I will just need to rebarrel it and chamber it for something else so.....the sky is the limit as far as my imagination goes. Another month or so should tell the tale.
Kind of a "improve it or totally wreck it" maneuver LOL.
God Bless
Steve
