QuickLoad request

[Guest]

Can I get two simulations from QL, please? I'm looking at my 300Wby results with the 180gr E-Tip, and I'm hoping I can go to a slower powder and get better results. If you can run it using the following specifics, I'd be grateful:

300Wby
26" barrel
Remington brass (smaller case volume than Norma/Weatherby)
180gr E-Tip
Powders: Retumbo and US869

Thanks in advance!

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler E-Tip 59180
Useable Case Capaci: 85.345 grain H2O = 5.541 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Retumbo

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 70.00 2550 2600 32180 10387 94.5 1.564
-18.0 91 71.75 2615 2733 34246 10699 95.7 1.525
-16.0 93 73.50 2680 2871 36469 10991 96.8 1.487
-14.0 95 75.25 2746 3014 38868 11259 97.7 1.449
-12.0 97 77.00 2812 3160 41452 11500 98.5 1.411
-10.0 100 78.75 2878 3311 44242 11712 99.1 1.374
-08.0 102 80.50 2944 3465 47256 11893 99.6 1.338
-06.0 104 82.25 3010 3622 50517 12041 99.9 1.303
-04.0 106 84.00 3076 3781 54054 12152 100.0 1.267
-02.0 108 85.75 3141 3944 57890 12240 100.0 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 111 87.50 3206 4108 62061 12323 100.0 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 113 89.25 3270 4275 66602 12400 100.0 1.165 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 115 91.00 3334 4444 71560 12471 100.0 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 117 92.75 3398 4616 76981 12537 100.0 1.092 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 119 94.50 3462 4791 82922 12597 100.0 1.057 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 122 96.25 3526 4968 89453 12649 100.0 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 111 87.50 3343 4468 76561 11793 100.0 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 111 87.50 2994 3582 50036 12675 97.7 1.301

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler E-Tip 59180
Useable Case Capaci: 85.345 grain H2O = 5.541 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon US 869

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 92 76.80 2367 2240 30204 9005 75.0 1.617
-18.0 94 78.72 2433 2366 32249 9377 76.6 1.575
-16.0 96 80.64 2500 2498 34471 9749 78.3 1.534
-14.0 99 82.56 2568 2636 36892 10119 80.0 1.493
-12.0 101 84.48 2638 2781 39532 10487 81.6 1.452
-10.0 103 86.40 2709 2934 42415 10851 83.2 1.411
-08.0 105 88.32 2782 3093 45573 11208 84.8 1.371
-06.0 108 90.24 2856 3260 49040 11556 86.3 1.332
-04.0 110 92.16 2931 3434 52855 11894 87.8 1.292
-02.0 112 94.08 3008 3617 57062 12218 89.3 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 115 96.00 3086 3807 61720 12527 90.7 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 117 97.92 3166 4006 66892 12819 92.0 1.177 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 119 99.84 3247 4214 72654 13089 93.3 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 121 101.76 3329 4430 79107 13336 94.4 1.091 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 124 103.68 3413 4656 86363 13555 95.5 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 126 105.60 3498 4892 94564 13744 96.5 1.008 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 115 96.00 3295 4338 76022 13024 97.1 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 115 96.00 2834 3210 49662 11403 80.6 1.322

The US869 load would be heavily compressed. The Retumbo load would be compressed somewhat.

Some other powders that may be work considering are as follows:

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler E-Tip 59180
Useable Case Capaci: 85.345 grain H2O = 5.541 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 55839 psi, or 385 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

28 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 103.7 86.0 5.58 3118 95.2 55840 13500 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 107.2 84.8 5.50 3107 100.0 55840 12195 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-50 110.0 93.6 6.07 3087 94.8 54936 13569 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 100.3 78.5 5.08 3069 100.0 55840 11488 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 97.4 82.0 5.32 3065 99.0 55840 12138 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 102.4 80.5 5.22 3062 98.9 55840 12288 1.274 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 92.6 76.0 4.92 3057 99.9 55840 11919 1.266 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 94.3 75.8 4.91 3051 98.1 55840 12227 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 98.8 75.6 4.90 3048 98.6 55840 11892 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 93.5 75.6 4.90 3048 98.6 55840 11892 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 94.7 79.2 5.13 3040 96.9 55840 12312 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 103.7 80.7 5.23 3034 98.8 55840 11668 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 94.5 75.2 4.87 3028 99.3 55840 11759 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 97.1 75.5 4.89 3027 99.2 55840 11773 1.268 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 106.1 88.9 5.76 2989 88.7 55840 12045 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 91.6 72.1 4.67 2987 99.2 55840 11211 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 93.2 74.1 4.80 2964 97.8 55840 11110 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 96.9 74.1 4.80 2964 97.8 55840 11110 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 106.2 82.6 5.35 2944 93.5 55840 11445 1.290 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 90.9 75.4 4.88 2943 99.2 55840 10711 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 91.0 68.5 4.44 2937 100.0 55840 10100 1.288 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 96.9 75.4 4.89 2936 99.5 55840 10504 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon US 869 110.0 92.2 5.97 2932 87.9 52909 11898 1.292
Accurate 3100 99.9 74.3 4.82 2931 100.0 55840 10389 1.311 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 87.9 5.69 2925 83.5 52782 11930 1.291
Vihtavuori N160 97.1 73.2 4.74 2922 98.4 55840 10523 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 92.2 67.8 4.40 2916 100.0 55840 9532 1.279 ! Near Maximum !

Of these, I would especially look at VN570 and RL50. VN570 looks as if it was made for the 300 Wby and a 180 grain E-Tip:

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler E-Tip 59180
Useable Case Capaci: 85.345 grain H2O = 5.541 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Vihtavuori N570

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 71.20 2526 2550 31992 10520 83.6 1.564
-18.0 88 72.98 2594 2689 34093 10919 85.2 1.525
-16.0 90 74.76 2662 2833 36361 11312 86.8 1.487
-14.0 92 76.54 2732 2983 38813 11696 88.3 1.449
-12.0 94 78.32 2803 3140 41465 12069 89.8 1.411
-10.0 97 80.10 2874 3302 44339 12428 91.2 1.375
-08.0 99 81.88 2947 3470 47457 12772 92.5 1.338
-06.0 101 83.66 3020 3644 50843 13098 93.7 1.302
-04.0 103 85.44 3093 3824 54530 13403 94.8 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 105 87.22 3167 4010 58544 13685 95.9 1.232 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 89.00 3242 4201 62937 13942 96.8 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 90.78 3317 4398 67742 14171 97.7 1.163 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 112 92.56 3393 4600 73007 14370 98.4 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 114 94.34 3468 4808 78802 14536 99.0 1.085 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 96.12 3544 5021 85188 14668 99.4 1.048 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 97.90 3620 5239 92208 14762 99.7 1.013 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 89.00 3437 4723 78400 13785 100.0 1.098 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 89.00 2985 3561 49978 13154 88.4 1.305

 

[kraky]

I have quickload and I have played with a few 300 wby's. What you have to remember about ql is that it can'take into consideration the freebore with wby's. Usually my results are slower than what quickload says. Here are some of my results with retumbo and my 300lw which I don't consider fast or slow speed wise. (26")

180tsx 88 grains ret rem brass 3151
180 etip, 85.5 ret, rem brass 3030fps.
180tsx, 90 retumbo rem brass 3200
180 horn bt 88.5 ret, 3160 rem brass
180 scirrocco 87.8ret wby brass, 3025

As always work up...lots of retumbo seem to vary some.

 

[Guest]

Mike, thanks for the QL info. I'm a little concerned about the load density, as I've had some issues seating these 180gr E-Tips over heavy charges of H1000 and RL22, with some bullet creep. Seems like it's only a temporary thing, as it works out after two or three trips through the seating die, but it's a pain in the neck (no pun intended) to have to re-seat two or three times over the first hour. I'm working through a medium length drop tube to get the best "settling" of the powders, too. I really need a vibration table...but that's several hundred bucks I don't have to spend right now. And an additional pain in the neck.

Kraky, I appreciate the info on your experience with the 300. I've got a good load that is consistently around .9" at 100yds for 3 shots using 180gr Hornady SST/Interbonds and H1000, though it's only 3100fps (no big deal, but I'd like 3200...because I'm a speed freak). I'd really like to move to the E-Tips for this gun, as I like the results I've gotten in my 270Wby using 130gr E-Tips. But velocity and accuracy are going to have to meet somewhere, and so far, they're not. I agree with you on the QL results not generally being accurate for the 'bees, as I've seen that in several simulations across multiple rifles. As I understand it, there is an adjustment within QL to account for the freebore, but it's obscure and most folks don't use it. I don't own QL so I can't say for sure.

I will keep y'all posted on the results with this combination. I can say that my 83gr loads using H1000 and 180gr E-Tips were running about 2880fps on my chrono, in 95+ degree temps. I am not optimistic about being able to get enough H1000 in the case to achieve anything like 3100-3200fps, thus my search for something slower. I'm actually curious about the loading density and temp stability of Ramshot Magnum, as I can pick that up locally and might like to try it. Figuring that Mike's data above are at 55kpsi, I could easily get 3100 or better with Magnum if it will fit in the case. Retumbo will be on my shelf shortly, as well, it appears. I am also considering RL25, as my Lyman manual lists a 180gr Barnes X (original X) with a stout charge of it, moving in excess of 3200fps. This is one of those chases, I suppose, that may end up being long and arduous, but hey, if I have to shoot the gun 500 times to find the right load, that's just my tough luck, huh?

 

[DrMike]

I've had some success with Magnum in several high capacity cartridges. Here's a projection for Magnum with the 180 grain E-Tip.

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler E-Tip 59180
Useable Case Capaci: 85.345 grain H2O = 5.541 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy)

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 67.60 2496 2489 31642 9874 90.3 1.579
-18.0 82 69.29 2560 2620 33696 10201 91.7 1.540
-16.0 84 70.98 2625 2755 35930 10516 93.0 1.500
-14.0 86 72.67 2691 2895 38334 10817 94.2 1.461
-12.0 88 74.36 2758 3039 40934 11103 95.3 1.423
-10.0 90 76.05 2825 3189 43750 11369 96.3 1.386
-08.0 92 77.74 2892 3342 46805 11616 97.2 1.349
-06.0 94 79.43 2959 3501 50122 11840 98.0 1.312
-04.0 96 81.12 3027 3663 53733 12040 98.7 1.276
-02.0 98 82.81 3095 3830 57666 12213 99.2 1.241 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 84.50 3163 4000 61961 12357 99.6 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 102 86.19 3232 4174 66659 12471 99.9 1.171 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 87.88 3300 4352 71816 12552 100.0 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 89.57 3368 4533 77483 12606 100.0 1.095 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 91.26 3435 4717 83733 12652 100.0 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 92.95 3503 4904 90620 12691 100.0 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 84.50 3317 4397 76627 11836 100.0 1.113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 84.50 2943 3462 49521 12174 94.3 1.309

RL25 projects to virtually the same velocity.

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler E-Tip 59180
Useable Case Capaci: 85.345 grain H2O = 5.541 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-25

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 64.80 2568 2636 33238 10024 97.1 1.518
-18.0 85 66.42 2628 2761 35286 10276 97.9 1.484
-16.0 87 68.04 2688 2889 37477 10509 98.6 1.451
-14.0 89 69.66 2748 3019 39820 10721 99.1 1.419
-12.0 91 71.28 2808 3152 42329 10910 99.6 1.387
-10.0 93 72.90 2868 3287 45016 11075 99.8 1.356
-08.0 95 74.52 2927 3424 47897 11215 100.0 1.325
-06.0 97 76.14 2986 3563 50988 11331 100.0 1.295
-04.0 99 77.76 3044 3703 54305 11441 100.0 1.266 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 101 79.38 3102 3845 57872 11547 100.0 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 81.00 3159 3988 61710 11649 100.0 1.208 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 82.62 3216 4133 65843 11748 100.0 1.180 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 84.24 3272 4279 70299 11842 100.0 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 85.86 3328 4427 75112 11932 100.0 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 87.48 3384 4578 80317 12018 100.0 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 89.10 3440 4730 85928 12099 100.0 1.052 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 81.00 3273 4281 75280 11226 100.0 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 81.00 2984 3558 49885 12100 99.0 1.309

 

[Guest]

You're a jewel, Mike. I'll keep you all posted on the results. It looks like RL25 is very different in QL than it was for Lyman during their testing. I'll be careful when working with it if I choose to. If I can find some N570 that may be interesting, though a tad expensive. Retumbo will likely be the first attempt. Of course, looking at the Magnum projection, it appears that, if my surmising about QL and Weatherby freebore hold true, Magnum may well be a wise choice, as it's uncompressed at max charge, so even if the rifle will take a little higher charge, it's only 102-104%, which is very manageable. Time for some more homework and contemplating! Good thing I love to ruminate on this stuff.

 

[DrMike]

For the 300 WBY, The peak chamber pressure was set at 4400 BAR (63,817 psi). Do bear in mind that QL is a synthesis drawn from calculations, whereas the Lyman data is pressure-tested under the conditions they listed. QL assumes standard conditions, which are seldom matched in our testing.

 

[Guest]

I hear you, Mike. The reality of actual versus projections. I'll be careful working up and I'll pay close attention to velocities, the delta between steps, and all the normal pressure signs. I've had enough experience with load data (both book and QL) to know that nothing is concrete except the law that every gun is a system unto itself - and safety is the order of the day.

 

[DrMike]

I've seen enough to know that you'll take appropriate precautions, dubyam. I suppose I'm overly cautious, but I try to remember to interject cautionary notes for the unwary who may read and jump to conclusions. Take it that I was addressing the unseen and unheard audience in this instance, which is actually the case.

 

[Guest]

No worries, Mike. I just wanted to assure you I was square with your advice, as should others be. Thanks for the help.

 

[kraky]

FWIW I have not had good luck getting the 180 etip to shoot in a couple of different gus. I have had decent luck with the 150 etip .308 in several guns. In that particular 300 wby UL I can't say why but it likes alot of the 150 grainers. I've gotten the 150 etip and the 150 tsx up to and above 3500 with I7828. And, that powder was actually a bit faster than ql thought. I maxed out at 88 grains with either bullet. It's unusual I think that my wby doesn't like the 180 class of bullets but either of those 150's at that velocity are capable of taking game at ranges out to and beyond where I'm at practice wise.